Call 1
Samantha, 36 and Single
Michael: Okay! Hi, this is Michael Fiore. And I am here with the first of what I’m calling the Blowjob Interviews, part of my Oral Fixation (a product). And guys, the goal of this series of interviews is to take some wonderful women I know and talking about what oral sex means to them, what a blowjob means to a woman; and what it’s like for a woman to give a blowjob and why women oftentimes don’t like giving blowjobs. Actually, it’s very common that a lot of guys write me and they say, “Michael, my wife hasn’t given me a blowjob in five years. Why?” There’s that old joke about why is the woman smiling as she walks down the aisle? Because she realizes she’ll never have to give a blowjob again. And often times, why women really do enjoy giving head.
And so, I think it’s going to be really valuable for you to listen in to actual women who are actually doing this act and get some really good perspective on what they like and what they don’t like. So, as you start to use the Oral Fixation program, you understand what’s going on in their head.
So, I’m very, very pleased to introduce my good friend, Samantha who is sitting here with me.
Samantha: Hello.
Michael: Hello, Samantha. How are you? I’m good. How are you?
Samantha: I’m doing great.
Michael: For guys who are listening, Samantha is a smoking, hot — uh, how old are you now?
Samantha:Thirty-six.
Michael: Smoking, hot thirty-sex year old woman — thirty-six! Thirty-six year old woman that I’ve known for quite a while now and have not so secretly lusted after for years and is kind enough to come down here to my office and talk to us today about this whole blowjob concept and prospect and how this is going to work.
So Samantha, to start off, I just want to talk to you about as a woman and as a — I’d say you’re a pretty sexually positive woman generally speaking and not a super repressed…
Samantha: I would say that that is a fair assessment, yes.
Michael: Yes, I would say so, too. How do you feel about blowjobs? When you heard that word, when you think about giving a blowjob, what kind of runs through your mind?
Samantha: Well, I quite like blowjobs. And definitely in the category of woman that in the most part really enjoy giving them and don’t withhold them. And I also see them as something that is very — a real act of love and generosity in a certain way and of devotion, if you will to give a blowjob. So, I have a really positive connotation of blowjobs.
Michael: So, it’s like a really intimate thing for you, yeah? It is.
Samantha: It Is.
Michael: Yeah.
Samantha: And I’ll also say — I mean, I think a lot of women have connotations because they’ve had bad experiences.
Michael: Yeah
Samantha: And I’ve been fortunate enough to have a very healthy, positive…
Michael: …experience around it, yeah.
Samantha: Yeah, around it. So, I’ve never had any bad…
Michael: So, you never had a guy who was like grabbing you and shoving you down to his crotch.
Samantha: Fortunately, not.
Michael: Good for you.
Samantha: Fortunately, not.
Michael: Good for you.
Samantha: So, I want to be sure that your listeners know that it does make a difference, your past experiences.
Michael: Mm-hmmm. Do you think you’re atypical in kind of your attitude amongst most of your friends, amongst people that you know, amongst people that you grew up with? Do you think you’re atypical in liking giving blowjobs?
Again, there is that idea a lot of guys have. And a lot of the guys who buy my stuff are married or in long-term relationships. And oftentimes, they’re in relatively conservative relationships compare to what you and I may know in our whacky liberal life here.
Do you think you’re weird in a sort of way because of that? Or do you think it’s just something that the women don’t talk about?
Samantha: Well, I will say that in general, I don’t think that women talk about these things maybe as openly with each other as perhaps men do in privacy. But I would say that I would probably do fall on a more exceptional, rare scale in regards to my outlook on sexuality in general.
Michael: Yeah, you’re a very sex positive person.
Samantha: Very sex positive person and in a very — I feel like in a very healthy way.
Michael: Sure. And very kind of — I’ve known you for a while now. I consider you somebody who’s got a lot of your sexual power. Again, I think a lot of women who maybe hearing this program (because I know some men are going to show with their wives and their girlfriends) could learn from in a certain way because a lot of my stuff again is about teaching women to be — I tell guys I’m going to teach them how to get their wife in the bed with text messages or get their wife to give them a blowjob or a girlfriend to give them a blowjob. And really, the way I do that is by teaching them to make their wives, their girlfriends feel better about themselves, right? Feel more empowered with themselves…
Samantha: Yes, absolutely.
Michael: …feel more like — the goal is, to me — and guys, you can get this in the main program — is to make the blowjob or whatever act you’re doing be something that you both get a little of positivity out of.
Samantha: Absolutely! Absolutely! And I do think there are often — you know, in this topic, there’s a division between those that feel really good about it and those that don’t. And there really isn’t — in my experience talking to women, much middle ground anywhere.
Michael: Yeah
Samantha: They don’t like to give them or they love to give them. And although I will say that the quality of the relationship has a lot to do with that. And I think a woman needs to feel on all levels of her life that there is balance in their relationship. Yeah, that the man is towing his end of the deal.
Michael: That’s interesting. So, let’s just talk about that a little bit more. So, if the relationship is damaged in some way…
Samantha: It doesn’t need to be — ‘damaged’ might be too strong.
Michael: Okay
Samantha: But let’s say a woman feels like she’s having to deal a lot maybe in masculine roles.
Michael: Mm-hmmm , okay.
Samantha: Or she’s even at the house all day and not appreciated. If she doesn’t feel appreciated and cherished and adored and acknowledged for all that she’s doing, a blowjob is definitely going to be something that’s going to feel like a duty then. And I think what makes a big difference between the ‘enjoy’ or ‘not enjoy’ is the sense of duty or the sense of — like a gift.
Michael: So, is it a — I’d say that’s really important. So, the gift thing is she’s doing it because she wants to…
Samantha: She wants to.
Michael: …because she enjoys giving you pleasure, right?
Samantha: Yeah. And because she wants the man in her life to feel special, to feel loved, to feel sexy. And that sense of generosity and giving is only going to come in a relationship where that’s also coming back to her.
Michael: …as opposed to being a chore where she feels like, “Oh, Jesus freaking Christ! I have to give him a blowjob…”
Samantha: “Here’s the dinner. And now, here’s your blowjob…”
Michael: “Oh, great! So, you bought your blowjob for the night and now, I feel like a whore,” right?
Samantha: Right, right.
Michael: Which is really what we don’t want to go for at all.
Samantha: No
Michael: We don’t want her to feel like it’s something that she has to do. And actually, guys like — you know, there are certainly guys out there who say, “Oh! The way to get a head is to… the way to get a head is to…” I tell people about this program and they’re like, “Oh! The way you do that is you got to buy her a diamond ring and you’ve got a blowjob.” And I’m like, “Yeah! If you want to waste a bunch of money and not actually improve your relationship in any way, right?”
So, I think what we’re talking about here is the idea of like you really need to make your woman feel appreciated in a profound way.
In your experience, what are some things guys can do to make that work? How can a guy make his relationship where his woman really feels like she wants to do that for him?
Samantha: Yeah, I think that letting her know that she’s beautiful, letting her know that she’s loved. And that could either be through words or through…
Michael: …dirty text messages, [cross-talking].
Samantha: Dirty text messages or you know, acts of love whether it’s like thoughtfulness or whether it’s sexy text messages. But to pay her attention. And that attention can come in lots of forms. It doesn’t have to be some really over the top thing. Actually, for most women, a little really goes a long way.
Michael: Yeah! So, that’s really kind of something I discover a lot. So, with my programs, I often get emails from people kind of saying, “Oh, man! I just sent her this one little message. I just said, ‘I can’t stop thinking about her eyes.’ And she came home and she rocked my world,” right? And to me, I find that both really nice and also, kind of sad in a way because it means — guys, a lot of women are starved for positive attention. And I find that a lot of guys have been programmed to think their wives or their girlfriends don’t like being made to feel sexy or don’t like being — like objectified in a positive way or don’t like being seduced in that way.
A lot of guys write me and they say, “Oh Mike, I’m afraid if my wife ever finds out I bought your program, I’ll be sleeping on the couch for a week.” And my response is, “Honestly, most of the time, if your wife finds out you brought my program, she’s going to be like, ‘Wow! Thank you for actually putting the effort in if you actually kind of do it.’”
Here’s the really key point there. It’s like a lot of the sex problems in relationships is that women don’t have sex drives, it’s not that women don’t like — in my experience, you’re a thirty-six or thirty-seven year old women. Women in their thirties and their forties, it’s…
Samantha: We are in our prime.
Michael: …they’re freaking crazy! Back when I was single, I was ripping the whirlwind with that kind of thing and having a great time because you meet these women who just are looking for men who can have a positive angle and a positive attitude on sexuality, can make these things fun for you.
And so then, l like to teach as a man, never be ashamed of your sexuality. Never be ashamed of your lust. And make it something that’s kind of fun for both people involved and that kind of thing.
Samantha: Well, it’s interesting, this — we’ve touched on so many I think really important pieces. We’re just going back to how that text that you sent, “I can’t stop thinking about your eyes…?”
Michael: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Samantha: When you could speak into a woman’s heart or speak to her in a way that lets her know that she is seen — women actually love to be seen.
Michael: Yeah, yeah.
Samantha: And that can be objectifying like, “Honey, you’ve got the greatest ass.” I don’t think any woman really ding it down.
Michael: Samantha does have a fantastic ass, by the way just so you know.
Samantha: But I think most women actually love to be seen. We spend a lot of energy for that.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, cosmetics and clothes and lingerie and everything else, yeah.
Samantha: And I think it’s also important to say that — you covered this in your other material. But the way that we’re wired, you need to open our hearts before you open our legs.
Michael: Mm-hmmm. Mm-hmmm, mm-hmmm. And that’s actually true I find even for relatively casual sexual relationships, right? Even for somebody you’re not in a relationship with — you’re not married to, you’re not with. You still need to — as a guy, I’m sure plenty of single guys will get this program and want to use it — you still need to make a woman feel special and seen and taken care of.
I know when I was single myself, a lot of the sexual success I had was because it wasn’t me trying to take something from a woman. It’s not like, “I’m going to seduce that girl tonight and bang her on the couch and never talk to her again.” It’s like, “Okay! Let’s make this a positive experience for both people. Let’s make this a fun kind of thing for both people.”
And guys, if you go into whatever relationship it is, whether it’s your wife or girlfriend, the girl you’ve secretly lusted after who’s the barista down the street for years, if you have a positive intention and go into it with like, “I’m going to make this fun for both of us,” you’ll see profound results no matter what you do. Even if she’s just like sucking your dick, you can make that a really fun thing for both people.
Back to more of the blowjob thing, what do you really like about giving a blowjob? What’s your favorite thing about it?
Samantha: Hmmm
Michael: She has got this great smile on her face and she’s sort of squirming in her seat a little bit. It’s kind of awesome, yeah.
Samantha: I really love that they really love to get a blowjob. I love knowing that I don’t think that there’s a single man out there who doesn’t really love a blowjob.
Michael: It’s pretty great.
Samantha: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah, yeah.
Samantha: So, I love knowing that when I’m giving a blowjob, they are so happy.
Michael: So again, there’s that power thing right there, right?
Samantha: Mm-hmm
Michael: And there’s almost like even if you’re being submissive in a way, it’s like topping from the bottom, right? Because you really have a profound amount of control over a man. You have a profound amount of control over him. It’s probably the most dominant thing a woman can do honestly if she does it right because she’s like, “I’ve got you by the balls right now.”
What else? What else about it kind of like — is there a physical aspect to it that you enjoy? Like what’s the…?
Samantha: Yeah! I guess…
Michael: Mm-hmm?
Samantha: …if I can be really blunt.
Michael: You can be as blunt as you want.
Samantha: I kind of like to imagine really it’s like I’m making love to their cock with my mouth. And so, I can get lost in that and find all the different nuisances that I can in the relationship between my mouth and their cock and find new ways to make them feel, “Wow! What are you doing down there?”
So, I love getting lost in it. And I love the — you know, it can really turn me on absolutely!
Michael: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Samantha: And it can turn me on because they’re getting turned on. And it’s just a really erotic act.
Michael: So, even though it’s like you’re not using a sex organ of your own at that time…?
Samantha: Well, you know I’d like to suggest that the mouth is a sex organ.
Michael: Well actually, much of what I teach and my system is largely about waking about the idea of a woman’s mouth a sex organ (and women can do the same thing with men, by the way). And just being like — you know, like the mouth. I mean, kissing, right? Kissing is one of the most intimate things we do as people? And there’s actually evolutionary theory out there that talks about what goes on in a kiss and how a kiss is like the most — it’s kind of how we judge whether somebody is worth being a mate of ours really quickly. Like if you kiss somebody and it’s a bad kiss, you’re like, “It’s over.”
Samantha: Deal over.
Michael: Right? So, the mouth is so sensitive in that kind of way. And again, if you make it — guys, if you make the blowjob concept something that’s fun for her, she can actually get physical pleasure out of it, as well as emotion and really (like Samantha just said) get really turned on by the entire process and really kind of get into it.
When you’re giving head, like what — give some tips to the guys who are listening about what they can do. What are the do’s and don’ts while they’re receiving a blowjob? In my product, I talk a lot about what you should do and how to give proper feedback and things like that. But I think having a woman who’s giving her fair share of head — just kind of talk about like what are some of the turn-ons and turn-offs about what a guy can do right or wrong while he’s receiving a blowjob?
Samantha: Yeah. I think one of, for me, a turn-off actually is if he tries to grab my head and shove it further down.
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Samantha: Just if you’re going to touch me, touch me like with appreciation. But if you want me to do something different, let me know by either just saying, “Hey, what you were just doing was really good” or, “a little faster…” or, “a little slower.” Or if I’m doing something right, let your pleasurable sounds. Let me know that. Make sounds.
Women I think have more permission to make sounds often in the sex act. And I love it when a man feels free enough to make sounds. So, if I’m doing something right, I’ll certainly get the message if you are letting me know about your pleasure.
Michael: Something I teach in the program also is like the big mistake guys make is they just kind of sit there, right?
Samantha: Yeah, yeah. And then, you’re down there going, “Uh, is he totally hating this?”
Michael: Yeah. It reminds me of a girlfriend of mine when I would go down on her and she would just kind of lie down like a dead fish and I’m like, “I don’t want to do this anymore. If you’re not getting off on it, why am I doing it?” Later, she’s like, “Ah! It’s really good.” I’m like, “You can move your hips a little bit.”
SamanthaYeah, I think that’s a really important point. It has to feel that it’s something that we’re participating in together.
Michael: Yeah
Samantha: And if there’s no feedback either positive or negative, if the guy is just sitting there even if he’s just having the time of his life, but if he’s up there having a time of his life in a super private way and I have no — I’m going to be poor.
Michael: Why are you even there? It’s almost like you’re just masturbating with your mouth at that point, right?
Samantha: Yeah, which isn’t — you know?
Michael: It isn’t fun for anybody.
Samantha: No.
Michael: Yeah! Like I said, in the program, guys, when you go through it, you’ll see some very specific instructions on this about how to give oral feedback, however you want to say it. And that can be just a grunt in a positive way.
Personally, I’m a big fan of saying, “Oh God, Samantha. I feel so fucking good,” or whatever else or like — you know, just talking during it and really giving the woman a lot of appreciation for what she’s doing because dude, she’s got your dick on her mouth. Like that’s kind of important.
What about eye contact, how do you feel about that during a blowjob?
Samantha: For me, personally, that isn’t that important. I mean, for me I often will have my eyes closed…
Michael: Ah! So, [cross-talking].
Samantha: …because I like to just kind of get lost in the sense of it with an occasional glance up there to see…
Michael: Yeah, see the look on his face.
Samantha: …see the look on his face. So, for me personally, eye contact isn’t important. I would imagine for some women, it might be more important. It’s at least important to glance down there every now and then. If she does have her eyes opened, you should probably look into them now and again.
Michael: Okay! I love looking into a woman’s eye while she’s giving me head. Personally, I get off on it.
But let’s talk about criticism for a second because something I talk about a lot is how a lot of women have really low sexual self-esteem. I’d say the vast majority do. I think you’re an exception and exceptional in so many ways.
Samantha: And I think men often do, too.
Michael: That’s true. That’s very true. That’s kind of another program in a lot of ways. And again, what I talk about a lot is for guys, never be ashamed of your sexuality because I think men are taught to be ashamed of their sexuality. They’re both taught to really be kind of misogynistic and objectify women in a negative way and also, to feel weird about it, right?
Samantha: Yeah
Michael: As opposed to what I’m like is like — you know what? I’m very complementary of my female friends. And I’m just like, “Wow! You are fucking gorgeous! And if could, I would bend you over the couch right now.” But it’s not a problem. It’s not a weird thing.
Samantha: No
Michael: It’s not like a taking from a woman. It’s just being like, “[00:19:08]. You’re really hot. That’s great,” “Thank you.”
I kind of lost my track of thought.
Samantha: Criticism. A lot of women if they’re giving you head (and I learnt it in an early age, in like high school), you ought to be really careful about correcting course with a woman there. A woman has got your dick in their mouth, she’s giving you head. She oftentimes feels like she’s doing you a favor. Maybe she’s somebody who hasn’t learnt to really enjoy it, then it’s really easy to mess it up, right? So, if you say something like, “You’re doing it wrong” or negative in a way, you can really make it so you never get a blowjob again.
So what’s the wrong way to give a woman feedback on what she’s doing? Because all guys are different, right?
Samantha: Yeah.
Michael: A lot of times a woman would know how to give head to one particular guy really well. And then, she’ll be with somebody else and it’s completely different. He likes teeth or he likes it tighter or whatever else. How would you tell a guy to give proper criticism?
Samantha: I think the most effective way would be to make positive reinforcements really strong when it’s good.
Michael: Great!
Samantha: Yeah? If there’s something that just really isn’t working and she’s not changing and she didn’t get the hint because you were like howling to the moon while she was doing that one stroke, then say, “Hey, a little less,” you know? “Just a little less” or, “A little more.” But gentle.
Michael: Yeah
Samantha: Gentle. And err on the side of less criticism and more positive reinforcements because the positive reinforcements to the things that she is doing right will just help build that blowjob self-esteem.
Michael: Totally! Totally!
Samantha: And then, she’ll start to feel, “Wow! I know how to do this. I’m doing good.” And it will make her more into it.
Michael: Yeah, totally! And I think there’s something really important that you just said there about the positivity aspect of it and being like — what I tell guys to do oftentimes is to be like, “Listen, don’t tell her, ‘I hate it when you squeeze my cock so hard.’ Say, ‘God! I really love it when you use a lighter stroke.’”
Samantha: Absolutley!
Michael: Right?
Samantha: Absolutely!
Michael: Or, “I love when you run your tongue down the side of my cock in a certain way,” or something like that. It’s like the right way to do it. But if you go negative, she’ll rabbit.
Samantha: Right.
Michael: And you’re screwed at that point. And again, it’s really hard to be a woman. Don’t think guys that you really understand this in a powerful way. Being a woman in our culture is tough in a way that being a man isn’t, I think in that like women are held to a higher standard and are constantly —
I think men are actually getting worse about this because they’re seeing more and more of this; you’ve got to have that 6-pack ab kind of thing and things like that all the time. But for years and years now, it’s been they’ve all got to look like Angelina Jolie. If a woman doesn’t look like Angelina Jolie or like a porn star, she’s not good enough, right? And it’s really hard. And most women who are very attractive women, they’re just women. They’re not models or something like that.
So, they’re still used to feeling bad about themselves in comparison that it’s very easy for a lot of them to feel like, “I’m not good at this, so why even bother,” right?
Samantha: Yes. Yes, yup! I mean, the self-esteem piece comes on — she feels good about herself generally if she feels loved and she feels like she is sexy and pretty in her man’s eyes. And she’s certainly going to feel more alive and more willing to be more playful in the bedroom.
Michael: Yeah, and just have more fun in general. Actually, what a lot of guys will discover as they go through this program is that it ends up being about more than a blowjob because you end up getting a lot more fun overall. She’ll end up being more confident, more powerful, trying new positions and trying new things. You want to tie her up, okay! That might happen. All these kinds of things kind of go from there.
If you’re like dating a guy or seeing a guy, what can he do that would just be like, “No, I’m never going to give him head.”
Samantha: Hmmm… Well, I have to say that — you know, you said ‘dating a guy’, I just also want to clarify that I feel like a blowjob is sometimes even something that I’ll do post a relationship being established.
Michael: Mm-hmmm, yup. More intimate.
Samantha: It’s more intimate than sometimes even sex, yeah?
Michael: Mm-hmm, yup.
Samantha: So, I’ll just throw that out there. A complete blowjob deal-breaker? Well, if those things were there, I probably wouldn’t be dating him in the first places, but certainly, hygiene is a major one. If he’s just clueless about hygiene — I mean, for one, I won’t probably even…
Michael: Yeah, you’re not going to stick around. Yeah.
Samantha: But that’s definitely going to be a massive deal breaker. I think that’s probably the only…
Michael: And probably also the whole like — you know, grabbing your head kind of thing.
Samantha: Yeah, if he was always rough. If he was just rough and disrespectful when I was giving a blowjob, I would definitely lose inspiration.
Michael: What I would generally always tell guys to do is don’t touch her head at all unless you really kind of get permission.
Samantha: Or you’re stroking her hair.
Michael: Oh, yeah. That can be okay. But a lot of women do have — you luckily don’t. But a lot of women do have those really negative experiences from when they’re teenagers or maybe from something further back from that or from like that asshole boyfriend who was constantly shoving his cock down their throat kind of thing. And it can really be a horrible, horrible experience for a girl. And as I say in the program, it’s like take a banana, shove it down your throat. Do you like it? If you’re do okay, good! You’re one in a million. But most people kind of don’t. And I think I would say most guys like just don’t even touch — you’ve got to let her feel in control.
Samantha: Yeah, absolutely!
Michael: Right? Depending on the nature of your relationship, you can play with submission and dominance games and things like that. And that can be fun down the line. But you ain’t there. Unless you’ve already really got that trust and got that kind of fun, kind of rapport going back and forth, don’t even go there. Let her be in control. Let her be the one to set the tempo and kind of be the one to like be she’s really in her power and the entire kind of thing.
Okay! Cool! Anything else? Any other advice you want to give or anything else you want to say guys or any kind of like favorite blowjob story or anything you want to talk about before we cut this off?
Samantha: I think that the man manicure down there…
Michael: Oh, yeah
Samantha: …is really nice. It’s really nice to not…
Michael: Mow the lawn.
Samantha: Mow the lawn. Trim it up. It’s nice not to have to deal with a bunch of — you know, maybe some women like that, but I think do you like that on a woman? That’s a good question.
Michael: No. Not personally.
Samantha: If you don’t, then return the favor.
Michael: And I’m personally a yeti, so I totally understand what you’re talking about, but…
Samantha: Yeah, trim it. Trim it.
Michael: So, really I would think that the core is like it’s all about being respectful, right? I guess the last thing I would ask you, Samantha is if a guy is with a woman, in a long-term relationship and they’ve been together for a while, she just won’t do it. He really wants her to. And for a lot of guys, it’s really important. It gives us a lot of pleasure, physical pleasure. And also, there is a lot of emotional and psychological pleasure out of getting a blowjob. There is a certain aspect of feeling of power that you get when you have a girl who’s giving you head. It really feels good in a lot of ways. And that can be important.
If a guy is like, “Argh, she just won’t do it,” what kind of advice would you give him as far as — I think at a certain point, you just got to say, “Listen, it’s not going to happen” because I know of certain women who, for whatever reason, would never want to go there and that’s unfortunate. But I think for most women, it’s more about if you do open the door and you make it a positive thing, she’ll eventually get there. But for guys who are just like, “I just — I can’t quite get her to go there” or, “I’m afraid to try,” what would you tell them?
Samantha: Well, especially in the context of a long-term relationship, it’s so easy for the polarity and the and the — you know, kind of the magic to change than it was in the early days. So, I think finding ways to re-establish that by creating designated date nights and pulling some of the — like the romance and the courting that happened in the early days because a woman will really respond to those and it doesn’t have to be really over the top.
Michael: Yeah, a $700-dinner or something like that.
Samantha: No! it doesn’t even have to be like that. But just if you were to pick a night that you didn’t turn on the TV and you just spend even an hour just completely mesmerized with each other again and sort of lost in — you know, I think to make the relationship romantic priority again. These long-term relationships are easily get into…
Michael: …a rut, yeah.
Samantha: …ruts and routines and busyness and families. And just like anything, you have to prioritize.
So, I think that. And then also, to look at, “Is there a woman feeling — is there a woman juicy?”
Michael: What does that mean?
Samantha: It’s easy for women in this day and age to have to hold a lot of masculine responsibilities.
Michael: Mm-hmm, okay.
Samantha: And it’s a wonderful thing that we can have careers and have lots of responsibilities. I’m not diminishing that. But we also need to then switch into our feminine juiciness. We need to take baths. We need to not be on the go and linear and multi-tasking.
And so, if your women seems like she’s gotten a little dried up, if she’s not juicy, think of ways that you can take a little responsibility off of her. Say, “Honey, hey! This coming weekend, here’s a spa day for you” or, “Let’s get a sitter and I want you to go and have some time with your girl friends.”
Give her some time to rejuvenate. And if you have a rejuvenated women, it’s more like she’s just going to be more juicy. If she’s rejuvenated, she’ll have access to more libido and she’ll want to share that with you.
Michael: Beautiful! Wonderful! I think there’s something really there about — the angle our culture has taken over the last thirty or forty years is the whole feminism thing. And women started kind of having to take on a lot of masculine responsibility in a way. And I think we’re so concerned about being equals. We forget that we’re very, very different creatures; that men and women are very, very different creatures. And it’s like men still need to be men; women still need to be women. Women want a man who can take a control, who can make her feel taken care of, make her feel like a woman. A man wants a woman who can be kind of submissive in some ways. And I don’t mean that in a negative way at all, right? But in a way that like can let him take the lead a little bit, who can take care of him some way. And that’s okay. I think there’s a lot of — if you can build that back into your relationship, if you take away any resentment she might have about having to shoulder the load all the time especially if you’ve got kids and all that kind of thing, it will lead to a better sexual life and generally, to her sucking your dick and having a great time doing it.
Great! I think that’s been some fantastic stuff. Samantha, I want to thank you so much for sharing with us especially I know you have a cold. So, it just made your voice a little deeper and sexier.
Samantha: Michael, thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity. I love adding to more sex positive experiences.
Michael: It’s pretty fun. It was pretty stuff knowing that when you do kind of stuff like this, like you get emails later. I’ll share them with you. Emails later from guys saying, “Oh, my God! I got my first blowjob in five years. Thank you so much!” It’s pretty great.
So guys, thank you so much. It’s been the first of our interviews. I’m planning on doing quite a few more of this and I’m including them. And again, the core point here is I wanted to get real women involved in this to make you — just so you know this isn’t all theory. It’s true stuff. This is stuff that actually works. And the core concepts behind what I’m teaching you are really around giving your woman permission to enjoy sexuality. Everything I teach you is basically built around that concept around the idea of helping her to grow and enjoy her sexuality and be able to be the sexy, wonderful, beautiful, fantastic, fuck-able woman that she is.
Alright! So Samantha, thank you very much. And guys, I’ll see you on our next interview. Thanks.
Samantha: Thanks.
Call 2
Cassandra, 37, Divorced, Mother of Two
Michael: Hey, folks! How are you doing? This is Michael Fiore again. And I am here for another one of our blowjob interviews in our series from my
Oral Fixation product talking to women about blowjobs, about oral sex, about going down, giving head, polishing your knob, whatever you want to call it. You can give more of these kinds of terms. And the goal of these interviews is really to give the female perspective on blowjobs and head and let you, as a guy, understand what you’re asking for from a woman, how she feels about it and things like that.
So Cassandra, thank you so much for being here.
Cassandra: It’s a pleasure, Michael.
Michael: Yes, thank you so much. So Cassandra, first just give us a little bit of a background about who you are, how old you are, you’re married/single/with kids, all that kind of thing.
Michael: Wow!
Cassandra: And I’ve been single for about three. And I have two children.
Michael: Two gigantic children.
Cassandra: Yeah. They’re elementary school age.
Michael: [cross-talking] Yes, they are like small titans. They can basically bench press me at this point, which is kind of scary.
So Cassandra, I think you have some really good insight for the guys here. And I’m doing a bunch of these interviews and a lot of the guys who are going to be hearing this interview are married guys themselves. And you were married for fifteen years. That was a very long time. And I think you can really give some insight into the married experience of blowjobs.
But before we get into that, why don’t we just kind of — when you hear the word ‘blowjob’, what goes through your head? Is it good/bad? What’s your attitude towards that kind of thing at this point.
Cassandra: At this point, I really enjoy giving blowjobs. So, I think of it as a way to give someone I care about pleasure. And it varies dramatically from person to person in my experience now as a single person.
Michael: Yes, having gone from being with one person for a long time and having a few others.
Cassandra: Mm-hmm, yes.
Michael: What is it about giving a blowjob that you enjoy besides the fact that you’re giving pleasure to somebody. And that’s actually really important, guys. Both men and women, but I think women in particular, there’s that caretaker aspect of things and they really do enjoy giving pleasure as long as they feel like you’re not pressuring them into it or making it a chore or something like that. But for you, what do you enjoy about it?
Cassandra: I think of it as a developing craft.
Michael: Okay.
Cassandra: So, and that every single person is different. So, being able to tune into each
Michael: So it’s like pride in craftsmenship.
Cassandra: Exactly!
Michael: Yeah.
Cassandra: Precisly yes. It’s like me.
Michael: So, like being with a guy, getting to a certain point where you want to do that.
Cassandra: Right.
Michael: And then, being like, “Okay, but how do I make him feel good.”
Cassandra: Excatly!
Michael: Because it is very different. I mean, as a guy especially when I was dating around a lot, you meet a girl and you’re just like, “Why are you doing that to my penis? That’s not what I like at all.”
Cassandra: Yes!
Michael: Like they’re going back from some other guy. And then, hopefully, they can kind of figure it out.
When you’re thinking about — like is this something you’ll do with somebody who you relatively recently started dating and being intimate with or is that something that’s kind of something you build up to.
Cassandra: That’s a good question. I think it depends on how well — if I know the person or not.
Michael: Okay. Before you [cross-talking].
Cassandra: So, I think that in a sense, there could be a build-up. But on the other hand, it could happen fairly early in a relationship if I have some established intimacy with them.
Michael: But it doesn’t sound like it has a huge weight to it in your mind?
Cassandra: Not particularly.
Michael: Yeah, because for some women, it really does.
Cassandra: Yes. And totally understandable.
Michael: For some of these women, that’s heavier than having sex.
Cassandra: Yes, amen! Yes, absolutely! It’s a very intimate act. Agreed!
Michael: Before, you said ‘not at this point’. At this point, you enjoy it, which intimates to me that that was not always true?
Cassandra: I think — you know, I don’t remember minding it as a married person. But I think I’ve come to appreciate it in many other sexual acts a great deal more having had a variety of lovers later in life.
Michael: Yeah, because you’re married for fifteen years. You’re only thirty-seven now. So, obvious…
Cassandra: Yes. Not altogether very — and I was a Catholic girl growing up.
Michael: Oh my…
Cassandra: So, I was good.
Michael: Well, that’s how Catholic girls keep from getting pregnant, isn’t it?
Cassandra: Exactly! You have to be…
Michael: about giving blowjobs.
Cassandra: Yes, yes. Precisely.
Michael: That’s very interesting, yeah. So, with your husband, was there ever a time that there was — were there dry spells? What kind of went on there?
Cassandra: I think — yeah! But the dry spells definitely correlated with overall dry spells in the whole relationship. If intimacy emotionally was off, then it was off sexually, too. But overall, we had a really good relationship that way. That wasn’t the reason the relationship kind of…
Michael: …the relationship kind of went out. …
Cassandra: [cross-talking] we got along that way.
Michael: But it does sound there was a key component there with like sort of guys — being a guy myself — for us, we can just fuck. It’s just like — and some of the things that I talk to with women about sometimes is the fact that it’s like, “Listen, if you guys are looking at another girl, it has nothing to do with you.”
Cassandra: Right!
Michael: It’s not like he’s emotionally lusting after her. You’re just like, “Wow! She’s got a really nice ass,”
Cassandra: Yeah!
Michael: …which a lot of women have a hard time getting their heads around because for women, it’s often times deeper than that. It’s like it’s much more about like if you’re lusting after someone is because there’s something else there or there might be something else there or something like that.
Cassandra: Well, we’ve loaded monogamy with a lot of weight in our culture at this point.
Michael: Oh, yeah. I agree. Monogamy can be — I think monogamy is great if you make a choice to do it. I just think that people — they assume that it’s natural when, to me, I read a great book Sexadon.
Cassandra: Sexadon rocks! Loved it! Agreed, yes.
Michael: Fantastic book. And it talks a lot about — like I’m in a monogamous relationship right now. I like being in a monogamous relationship. It’s something I chose to be in. I love my girl to death. And we do that. We both know it’s not natural.
Cassandra: Mm-hmm
Michael: And by it not being natural, doing it more is actually more satisfying, right?
Cassandra: Interesting.
Michael: …because you know that it’s not like it’s necessarily how we’re built to be. It’s more like, “Yes, we’re doing this and we’re choosing to do this because we want that to be our relationship right now,” which I think is kind of fun.
So, for blowjobs, have there been times you’ve met a guy and just been like, “No freaking way. I’m not going to give him head,” whether you’ve gone in a relationship with him? Or actually, give me an example of a time in your marriage perhaps when your husband may have wanted a blowjob, but you were just like, “No, I don’t want to,” and why was that? What was holding you back from doing that?
Cassandra: Definitely things as simple as good hygiene.
Michael: Yeah, that’s a huge one.
Cassandra: Yeah, pretty classic.
Michael: As I say in the book guys, take a fucking shower.
Cassandra: Yeah, good advice. Being married, it’s a long haul and you definitely go through phases. And for me personally, I found that sex keeps on being really satisfying and it keeps changing over time. And to the end of our relationship, it was still very positive. But there were definitely periods that — and gosh! Boy, I wish I had more to say on that. I think it’s very complicated. I mean, on one hand, sex is very simple. And on the other hand, there is one you’re in a relationship as complicated as a marriage.
Michael: Well, there seems like there’s so much weight around it, right?
Cassandra: Yeah.
Michael: I talk to women — I’m a very flirty guy. You know this. And I have a tendency to flirt with pretty much any women. And I’ll do it oftentimes to make them feel good. Like I’ll meet a woman who’s married or is feeling — like a lot of woman feel horribly underappreciated by their men…
Cassandra: Definitely!
Michael: …like if a guy makes the mistake of feeling like their wives don’t have a sex drive.
Cassandra: Yeah.
Michael: Right? And I’m like, “That’s bullshit.” It’s really just the guy is not very good at making the woman feel sexy and beautiful and the woman shuts off. And then, I’ll meet a girl and I’ll just kind of — I’m not going to sleep with a married woman, but I will like flirt with her to make her feel good. And all of a sudden, she’s like getting all turned on and beautiful. And the guys are like, “How did you do that?” I’m like, “I made her feel good. I made her feel appreciated and lusted for and objectified in a positive way.”
Cassandra: I absolutely 100% agree with that. And I think you’re nailing it right there because I remember — I mean, I think that’s it. I mean, it’s not feeling appreciated and all of those other dimensions of not just regularly being told that I was attractive, just having to try and elicit that response when it wasn’t really there. And it just seems like it would — yeah, I mean, even if you’re not really feeling it right now, fake it until you make it, dudes.
Michael: Yeah, totally. Make her feel good.
Cassandra: Yeah!
Michael: It’s actually a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Cassandra: Agreed.
Michael: In my experience — and guys, this is actually kind of important, so write it down if you’re listening — if you tell a woman that she is a really sexy, beautiful woman, she will become a really sexy, beautiful woman. It’s a self-fulfilling prophesy at that point.
Cassandra: Agreed.
Michael: If you’re constantly telling the woman you have the most fucking beautiful ass, she will start taking pride on her ass. She might even start working out more at that point trying to make it.
And actually, for the blowjob thing, here’s the really funny bit. In my experience, there’s a thing called blowjob self-esteem, right? And a lot of women don’t give blowjobs because they think they’re bad at them.
Cassandra: Agreed!
Michael: Yeah.
Cassandra: Yes.
Michael: Yeah.
Cassandra: Or what you were saying before — sorry — about everybody having different tastes
Michael: Sure.
Cassandra: …and being afraid that you’re going to do something that’s going to turn something off.
Michael: Yeah. It’s like, “Well, my ex-boyfriend liked it when I choked his cock like it was a snake that was trying to bite me. So, I wanted to do the same thing with them.” But in my experience (and maybe you can confirm this for our listeners), if you make a woman really feel that she’s good at something and like if you’re just saying, “Oh, my God! You give the most amazing head” or one of my favorite phrases to say to any woman, to my girlfriend or anybody else, “You look so fucking beautiful with my cock in your mouth,” which guys are like, “I could never say that to my wife!” Like dude, try it.
Cassandra: Just fake it ‘til you make it, fellas.
Michael: Say it with a smile.
Cassandra: Say it with a smile.
Michael: Say it with a smile. And if you start making her associate feeling good about herself with giving you head, she’ll suddenly want to do it more.
Cassandra: Agreed! One hundred percent agreed!
Michael: So, if she can take pride in the act — like you were saying before that you really like taking pride in giving blowjobs.
Cassandra: Exactly!
Michael: And like making a man a big powerful, hairy, sweaty man weak in the knees. Guys, if you’re listening to this, once in the program I sell, I tell you a lot about how you get her to kind of go down in the first place. But once she’s there, I have a whole section in the program that’s about how to receive a blowjob. And that’s the most important part, right? Getting her to go there once isn’t actually that hard. Getting her to come back is the important part. And the way you do that (and Cassandra, you can confirm this) is you make her feel like she’s fantastic at it even if she’s not necessarily at first. It’s like, “Oh well, there was a little too much teeth. There were things like that… blah-blah-blah…” — shut up, you know? Like give her the positive feedback and kind of go from there.
Cassandra: Agreed.
Michael: And eventually, you can make her kind of the blowjob queen who gets off on it herself, which is a whole other kind of thing. Do you get turned on giving head?
Cassandra: Yes! Oh, absolutely! Yeah!
Michael: So, talk to me about your experience of that. What is that like?
Cassandra: I think once I’ve had more blowjob self-confidence as you…
Michael: ‘Blowjob selfesteem’…
Cassandra: Self-esteem, pardon me. Eye contact is really, really fun.
Michael: That’s a power thing, you know?
Cassandra: [cross-talking]. I wasn’t going to say it.
Michael: Say it!
Cassandra: I wasn’t going to say it…
Michael: Say it!
Cassandra: …but it is a power thing and there’s a lot of psychological — I mean, the brain is the biggest sexual organ, right?
Michael: Especially for women, I would say. Yea h!
Cassandra: For men, too! But especially for women. It’s the only one that matters. Mm-hmmm.
Michael: Like guys are like, “Well, I just need to learn how to lick her pussy and she’ll give me head.” That’s one thing. Or you can just learn how to get her so turned on that it doesn’t matter what you do and she still gets off, right? Like you just kind of go there.
Talk to me about the power thing a little bit.
Cassandra: There’s a lot of — loads of very vulnerable position. I mean, obvious. I mean, you think about the ancient image of the vagina dentate, the vagina with teeth. So, here you are with your mouth wrapped around a man’s cock…
Michael: Cock, yeah.
Cassandra: I mean, they’re in a very vulnerable position. So, there is that shadow side to it.
Michael: But you’re just talking about how you’ve got power over the guy.
Cassandra: Indeed!
Michael: Yeah!
Cassandra: Yeah! And to give them profound pleasure…
Michael: Or to do…
Cassandra: …something that — and for some men, it is a more elicit, more intimate act than…
Michael: …and dirtier , yeah.
Cassandra: Yes! There’s something about it. It’s also loaded with a lot of historical imagery…
Michael: Cultural stuff.
Cassandra: …and cultural around…
Michael: Well, it was illegal.
Cassandra: Right! Exactly! Right! Sure!
Michael: For the longest time, it was very buggering.
Cassandra: Yeah! I mean, considered — so, if you get that historical perspective on it, it’s all so…
Michael: But I think the power thing is really interesting to me. What’s interesting to me about blowjobs is you’re both experiencing a power trip, right? Sometimes — a get a lot of guys and a lot of women who will think, “Oh, giving a blowjob is degrading,” right? And it can be. And it can be in a fun way if you do it right. But it’s like it’s degrading. It’s all about the guy’s pleasure and the guy’s power and he’s forcing you to do this. But ladies, you’ve got your teeth around his dick. You can do whatever you want. But the women that I talked to that enjoyed giving blowjobs enjoy the fact that you’ve got the softest, most vulnerable part of a big, strong man. And you can do whatever you want to him right there.
Cassandra: Exactly!
Michael: And what’s interesting to me is that both the guy and the girl in that situation can be having a power trip at the same time.
Cassandra: Oh, absolutely!
Michael: Right?
Cassandra: Yes.
Michael: Like the guy can be going through his more misogynistic fantasies (because we all have them). It doesn’t matter how feminist you are like all guys have that whole, “Yeah, I’m getting a blowjob. This is awesome” kind of thing. And the woman can be having the whole like, “I’m controlling this guy at the same time.”
Cassandra: Simultaneously, indeed!
Michael: Yeah, yeah. And that’s kind of how I talk about like it’s all about both people kind of have enjoyment at the same time.
Cassandra: Absolutely! I think there’s a lot of pleasure there, too. I think depending on the person, someone might really like having their hair pulled. That’s a great time to do so.
Michael: Mm-hmmm. I find most, but you know?
Cassandra: Yeah! See? Exactly! And I’m not even sure everybody knows that they might want to try that.
Michael: Yeah, it’s interesting because I actually tend to be reluctant to talk too much about that kind of thing in a lot of my products at least at first because I’m afraid that guys will take that as a permission to be a dick, to be mean to a woman, which is not what it’s — I mean, I’ve been with a fair amount of women and I teach this stuff and that kind of thing. And for me, it’s like the key to being able to have a little more control play, to have a little more dominance and submission kind of stuff going on is to be very respectful about it. You have to be incredibly respectful to get to the point that you’re allowed to be disrespectful, to kind of like grab a woman’s hair and throw her done and pull her wrist behind her back and fuck her really hard, which most women really enjoy. When I talk to women, they’re always like, “Yeah, what guys don’t understand is that a lot of women really just want to have their hair pulled, bent over the coach and fucked really hard.” And guys are like, “Really? My wife doesn’t want that. She… she…” And the more powerful the woman is in her everyday life, the more she wants that.
Cassandra: I think it’s just if you have a degree of intimacy and trust in your relationship that you can play with all of those power dynamics, it’s just a great opportunity for variety and spicing up particularly for monogamous couples in long-term committed relationships.
Michael: Have more fun.
Cassandra: Have more fun in those dimensions. I’m just not sure that people realize how many…
Michael: …how far you can go.
Cassandra: …aspects — how far you can go in a lot of it in your head.
Michael: And that whole aspect of like — in some of the stuff I write, I talk about a woman wants to be your slut. No one woman in my experience want — well, maybe a very few — want to be seen as a slut.
Cassandra: No, yeah. Agreed.
Michael: Not even porn stars really. They just do it for the money.
Cassandra: Well, there are the feminists who are proclaimed — I mean, in sex positive cultures, ‘slut’ isn’t a negative term.
Michael: Yes. But in the general world…
Cassandra: Sure, you don’t want to be considered a slut all the time. No. agreed.
Michael: But women in my experience — and please confirm or deny — oftentimes when they’re in a relationship or with one guy, having the ability to be slutty, to really go there, to do dirty things, to fulfill their fantasies is incredibly appealing.
Cassandra: Well, they want to make people happy. And they want to make their partner happy. You want to be nurturing in the way that your partner is going to find satisfying. And I think the world has been complicated by the porn industry. And [cross-talking]…
Michael: Yup. I mean, it’s both feminism and online porn.
Cassandra: Yes. It’s really complicated. I mean, yeah! Feminism has and sex positive culture has changed — access to information about sex. But porn I definitely think is complicating things for better and for worse, the aspects of addiction whirring their head into and images that women can’t really live up to nor can men.
Michael: Well, most men don’t have 12” cocks.
Cassandra: Right! Right! Exactly!
Michael: I keep it in a jar in my closet.
Cassandra: Oh, that’s useful. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michael: Not attached to me, but it’s weird.
Cassandra: That would be a lot to carry around every day. But I do think it’s introduced some new concepts into people’s every day sexual practices that are interesting and complicated.
Michael: So, what about your own transformation I think? I’ve known you for a while now. And definitely for the last couple of years, you’ve woken up a lot sexually because you went from being monogamous for a very long time to [00:18:05]. And I think a lot of — what guys really want is they want their wife or their girlfriend to be able to be free and be more slutty in a positive way and have more fun with them. They don’t want them to go with anyone else because they don’t want to be threaten, but it’s kind of what they want.
What mentally did you have to go through going along those steps from being a relatively conservative (sexually) to being less so now, to having more fun, to being more open to kind of different things? Was there an identity crisis of any kind? Was there stuff that you pushed back in your mind that you have to be okay with to be able to get there? What went on your mind?
Cassandra: Well, it’s interesting that you brought up the term ‘sexual’. I mean, that — pardon me — ‘self-esteem’ because I think self-esteem is really a critical factor in this. Feeling comfortable with who I am, with my desires freed me up to be able to have different kinds of interactions with different people and to — it was really important to uncouple sex from big monogamous, heteronormative ‘love’ the way that it is written.
Michael: ‘love…’ and that assumption that you will meet that one person and you will be hot for each other for fifty years…
Cassandra: Right! Exactly!
Michael: …and you’ll be like — which I’m sorry, guys, it doesn’t really work that way.
Cassandra: Yeah! I mean, you have to work for it.
Michael: And you can keep it hot for a long time.
Cassandra: Absolutely! I mean, I think long-term monogamous relationships can be very, very sexually satisfying if you put some work into them. So, I’m not saying — I mean, I would like to be in a long-term monogamous relationship again. But over the past few years, I haven’t been and I have really enjoyed having different kinds of relationships with different men that weren’t necessarily — you know, they weren’t going to turn into a big committed long-term marriage.
Michael: And able to have more fun.
Cassandra: I had a lot more fun, yeah!
Michael: And able to let yourself play with different roles…
Cassandra: Absolutely, yes!
Michael: …as opposed to, “I am a wife and a mother and…” that kind of thing. I think there’s probably something there about how — in my experience, a lot of guys who are married and have got kids, they stop seeing their lives as — they really stop seeing their wives as sexual beings.
Cassandra: Agreed.
Michael: Can you speak to that a little bit? Have you ever experienced that or what…?
Cassandra: Well, there’s so much pressure put on those relationships. And especially when you have young, really little kids that require a lot of physical care especially for breastfeeding moms, they’re often exhausted because they’re touching — they’re constantly, constantly physically interacting with little kids. And that’s a wonderful experience. It’s very satisfying. But by the time you get into bed at night, you’re exhausted. And the phrase ‘touched out’ comes to mind.
Michael: Oh! That’s interesting, yeah!
Cassandra: Yeah! So, when dad gets into bed and wants to get some needs met, it can be — you just might be like, “God! I can’t touch anybody right now.”
Michael: “No, no, no!!!”
Cassandra: “…please!”
Michael: And a year and a half goes by and they haven’t had sex.
Cassandra: Right! And so, I felt that way with my first child. With my second child, I did not experience that as much. I don’t know if I adjusted to it or what. But my libido remained intact much — and it returned much quicker.
Michael: What advice would you give to a guy in that situation, to a guy who’s like, “Okay! My wife doesn’t want me to fuck her anymore and it’s going to be that way…” and often times, it is going to be that way for another ten months.
Cassandra: That is a really good question and it’s interesting that you say that because my friend, David Kates who writes a blog called Deep Masculine actually wrote a post on this recently. So, check out Deep Masculine. And he asks the question. He asks new mothers what can we all do? How do we broach a conversation like this that helps meet new fathers’ needs? I think it’s a really important question for everybody.
Michael: Because no man wants — especially one whose wife just had a child, he doesn’t want to make her feel unwanted.
Cassandra: No! Of course, not!
Michael: But dude, we’ve got needs.
Cassandra: Exactly! And new fathers are under a lot of stress and they’re going through the same learning curve that new moms are, new moms if they’re breastfeeding and they’re staying at home, it can be a different kettle of fish. But they’re both undergoing a lot. And that relationship is under a lot of stress. I would say — you know, you may want to consider something as like therapy, a therapy session or two just to get issues on the table during that transition…
Michael: …with all that weight kind of thing…
Cassandra: …without all of that weight and just to talk to a third party.
Michael: …and to be able to say, “Well, I saw a person come out of your vagina [cross- talking].”
Cassandra: Right! Exactly! There’s a lot of adjustments that you make there, but the other thing would be to find ways to talk with mom about — you know, that this is really important, that you’re trying to maintain intimacy and that you want to put your relationship — that both of you need to nurture your relationship in order for them to assert, to find time for it…
Michael: …and find a way to… and kind of have that kind of…
Cassandra: Absolutely! It’s really, really, really critical.
Michael: Okay. So, that’s the — we kind of got a feel about things. It’s been really fun, good stuff. But back to the blowjob things, back to fellatio, giving head…
Cassandra: Well, indeed! Well, fellatio actually seems like a great idea postpartum because a lot of — at least for those first six weeks, it’s really…
Michael: …the vag ain’t happenin’
Cassandra: Exactly! So, penetrative sex isn’t really happening. So, a blowjob — being able to have that intimate connection would be…
…the best way to do it.
Michael: And really going back to that self-esteem thing, making her feel really…
Cassandra: Right! Making her feel really good and appreciated though…
Michael: …and sex…
Cassandra: …because she’s already feeling like she’s giving out a lot, so if you can give her back that sense of being, sexy, attractive…
Michael: And giving praise, anything like, “Oh, my God! You’re so good at that. This is…”
Cassandra: And finding something that you can exchange with her that may not focus on the vagina. I mean, you know something more clitorally-oriented. I don’t know. Or just something else she really likes.
Michael: When a guy is receiving head, what’s the turn on, what’s the turn off for you?
Cassandra: Eye contact is a turn on.
Michael: Why?
Cassandra: The sense of connection, the sense of intimacy, just looking at the expression on his face knowing how much he’s achieving…
Michael: …enjoying?
Cassandra: Is he enjoying it or not? That’s a very unguarded moment.
Michael: It’s probably the only moment when guys don’t really have their defenses up.
Cassandra: Absolutely! There’s something — it’s very, very powerful in that way. Sound definitely, knowing what their — I think it depends on the person. Some people love dirty talk. Some people really don’t.
Michael: But some kind of response.
Cassandra: Oh, some kind of response is definitely good.
Michael: Because otherwise, it’s like, “Yeah. Thank you. Great.”
Cassandra: Right. Yeah, yeah. It’s hard to tell if you’re doing it right. I don’t mind hair- grabbing. I think that’s great.
Michael: Some women do have a hard time…
Cassandra: Absolutely! I mean, there are a lot of women with sexual trauma histories. I mean, a quarter at least of women have sexual trauma histories.
Michael: I thought it was even higher than that.
Cassandra: It probably is higher than that. So…
Michael: So, what I generally tell guys is unless you know she likes it, don’t touch the head.
Cassandra: Amen.
Michael: And certainly, I’ve been with women who you can actually grab her head and you can kind of make it fun, you can have some things like that. But you’ve got to know it’s okay first.
Cassandra: Yeah. You have to have a relationship where you’ve established some of those things. And I would say that when you’re not already — you know, go in and have a conversation about — I mean, that’s a great way to get turned on; is just to talk about what your little turn ons are, right? I mean, I love those conversations. I think they’re a really fun way to get to know someone; is to know what…
Michael: …just know what turns you on.
Cassandar:…those little — what are those little things.
Michael: And hopefully, you’re honest about it, too.
Cassandra: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Michael: As I get older — I’m in my early thirties now, but as I get older, I just get more honest about it. It’s like, “Listen, there’s a part of me that gets off on kind of the power fantasy stuff.” And that’s cool. It doesn’t affect who I am as a human being.
Cassandra: Right! No, absolutely!
Michael: It’s just that it’s there. It’s in my brain.
Cassandra: Fantasy is really important. Yeah, one hundred percent agreed. Being honest on everybody’s, on both side is absolutely critical. I mean, that is really where true intimacy lies; is being honest and not in trying to say something to someone that you think they want to hear. No, uh-uh.
Michael: So,eye contact. And you said feedback…?
Cassandra: Yes.
Michael: …which I think is huge, guys. Always give feedback. And I…
Cassandra: Thank you.
Michael: Thank you is a good one.
Cassandra: Thank you, gratitude is definitely…
Michael: Some women have a really weird time when they get — the thank you thing can be a double-edged sword because they’re like, “What am I? You’re whore? You’re saying ‘thank you’?”
Cassandra: Right! Yeah, yeah. I suppose that’s true. I can…
Michael: So, I like to tell guys to give praise instead.
Cassandra: Yeah, I think praise is a good way to go [00:27:14].
Michael: And to show that she has power over you like, “Oh, my God! I can’t believe what you just did to me. I felt so incredibly good. And you’re so good at that. You just rocked my mind. You rocked my world,” and you know, good… good… good… good… good… praise… praise… praise… praise… praise… praise… praise… praise… praise… and that kind of thing.
So, turn-offs then would be being quiet, not giving any praise, probably grabbing the hair and shoving your mouth down to a cock is generally speaking a bad thing.
Cassandra: Probably.
Michael: Yeah.
Cassandra: Probably.
Michael: Generally speaking, I wouldn’t probably go with that one. And let me see, anything else we can really say about it? I think it’s — we kind of covered off — I think the core point has really been about — especially when we talked about moms a lot (because you are a mother yourself) and just like realizing her point of view as a mom. Women, especially moms are not treated as sexual beings.
Cassandra: No! I mean, think about mom jeans for God’s sake. And then, I guess there is the MILFs. Again, thank you porn industry for offering us the MILF.
Michael: Yeah, for the MILF — a very powerful thing.
Cassandra: Indeed! But yeah! Women, just because you have a baby, it doesn’t mean you’re not sexual person anymore.
Michael: Yeah, it is kind of strange that our culture — really, sex is largely about making babies, but as soon as we make a baby, we stop seeing her as attractive.
Cassandra: Exactly!
Michael: I wonder psychologically why that is. Instead, we’re going after a 23-year old, pneumatic woman who’s really not going to be any good in bed…
Cassandra: Agreed.
Michael: Just in general, women get a lot better in bed as they get older. When they’re 22, they just kind of lay there. And you’re like, “Yeah, that’s fun. Great! Thanks” and go from there.
So, swalling? Yes… no?
Cassandra: That is totally about the nature of the relationship for me. I mean, that was something I did with my husband, but I don’t think I’ve ever done it with anybody I’ve dated.
Michael: Interesting! That’s really interesting! What do you think psychologically that’s about for you? What does his sperm mean?
Cassandra: That to me seems like — you know, I guess it just is. That strikes me as an extremely intimate act. And I can totally see how that’s completely subjective…
Michael: Totally!
Cassandra: …for each individual person.
Michael: Should a guy get — I mean, some guys, that’s like a big thing for them. The big thing for them is, “I want to cum in your mouth” or, “I want to cum in your face” or whatever. And again, there’s that whole…
Cassandra: glasses, et cetera.
Michael: Yeah, exactly. Drink the cocky or whatever else, which is all — we’re all perverts, right? We’ve all got our thing deep in our mind that’s kind of like — whatever! It comes from porn. It comes from plenty of backgrounds.
For a guy who’s like really obsessed with that idea and his wife or his girlfriend is just kind of like, “Well, not so much. What do you tell him?”
Cassandra: That’s a really good question. I mean, I think that that’s — gosh! Again, I really think it’s that degree of intimacy you have in a relationship. If you’re in a committed relationship at any stage, I think you really need to be good giving and game as Dan Savage talks about. Good ole’ Dan, he’s got it going on there. I think that if you’re in a committed relationship, you really need to talk in a trusting, intimate way about preferences like that and to at least be willing to give it a shot. I think that if it’s a more casual sexual relationship…
Michael: Yes or no.
Cassandra: Yeah! I don’t really feel like you necessarily owe anybody anything.
Michael: Yeah, you can’t really demand it at that point.
Cassandra: No. No.
Michael: “Oh, I just met you and I want you to… ”
Cassandra: Right! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michael: Yeah, not so much.
Cassandra: Uh-hu h.
Michael: I guess the last question I have for you, Cassandra will be about sex negative women.
Cassandra: Sex negative women, yes?
Michael: In my experience, there’s a lot fewer of them than guys think. A lot of guys think they’re with a sex negative women, but it’s actually because there’s something wrong in the relationship or she doesn’t feel sexy or whatever else. He doesn’t make her feel wanted.
But there are some women out there who I think is largely a cultural thing and very rarely — it’s either cultural or it’s because of anti-depressants or things like that and are, “Nah! Not cool with that.” For a guy in that situation, what kind of advice would you give them? He really does want a blowjob. He really just wants to make love.
Cassandra: Well, that’s a big thing. I think talking about trust and intimacy, talking about it when you’re not in bed. I mean, when you’re clothed, when you’re away from — when you’re not in a moment. When you’re not in the actual act, it’s really important to sit down and have a conversation about what your needs are if you’re in a committed relationship. And if she has a trauma history that she hasn’t dealt with…
Michael: …which is ridiculously common as we’re talking about.
Cassandra: Yeah. Very, very common…and very, very difficult for some people. Some people don’t even — they can’t access those memories. And dealing with it is a serious commitment. So, if you’re in a serious committed relationship, gentleman and you think that your partner might have a history like that, that’s a bigger commitment to being really, really sweet and really nurturing and really caring and putting love first.
Michael: There also must be something there about — this goes for men and for women. Okay! You’re a guy, you really just want her to suck your dick. And you want that to be a fun thing for both of you. And she doesn’t want it for whatever else. It might not really be about you.
Cassandra: Agreed.
Michael: It’s kind of a big deal. Both men and women do this. Women think oftentimes,
“Okay! That guy, he’s looking at another girl,” no!
Cassandra: No!
Michael: Not at all. And this could be, “Oh! Well, why won’t she do this with me?” It might not even be about you to a certain degree.
Cassandra: Agreed. In which case, just having that consciousness that she’s a complicated human being…
Michael: We’re all [cross-talking], yeah.
Cassandra: …as we all are indeed, finding out what her needs and preferences are and having a conversation about what — just using the time — talking could be a really great way to build trust and intimacy. It’s a great way to get to know each other.
Michael: That can be a major turn-on.
Cassandra: And it’s a major turn-on.
Michael: Most guys over the course that I try to teach anybody is communication skills.
Cassandra: And letting her know what a blowjob means to you. I mean, that it is — she wants to please you.
Michael: Okay! That’s important. That’s actually important.
Cassandra: Yeah! Yeah!
Michael: Because I think we talked about what blowjobs mean to a woman, but not what it means to men. But a lot of women don’t understand why it’s important to a guy.
Cassandra: I think most women would love to know from their partners why a blowjob is important for — yeah, each individual.
Michael: And guys, as a guy, you can’t just say, “Because it feels good.” I defy you, I defy any guy who actually analyzes his inner being to say the reason he likes a blowjob is because it feels good. I mean, that’s part of it certainly. But so much of sex is mental. And it really is about — there’s that power fantasy. There’s that game thing going on. There’s that intimacy thing going on between two people, like looking down at the beautiful woman who’s smiling around your cock and feeling love or lust or whatever else. There’s a lot going on there beyond just the physical sensation.
And so, there’s got to be something there about being honest about that, being honest about your desires, being honest about the root of your desire, where it comes from whether it’s from a ‘dark place’ or not, right?
Cassandra: Right!
Michael: That can be okay.
Cassandra: Absolutely, yeah!
Michael: Yeah. And if you can go there with a woman and be respectful on both sides of things, you can go beyond the blowjob.
Cassandra: Definitely! Definitely! I mean, it will open up your whole relationship sexually.
Michael: And have a lot more fun and a lot dirtier…
Cassandra: Yeah! And that’s — I think emphasizing fun is a great way to go; that you want to have fun with her, that it’s just you just — yeah!
Michael: That she’s a sexy bitch and you want to have a good time with her.
Cassandra: Precisely, yes!
Michael: Objectifying your partner is good. I promise you, it’s okay.
Cassandar: Indeed.
Michael: I encourage you personally. I will go to my grave saying that.
Cassandra: Amen.
Michael: So, there you go. So Cassandra, thank you so much. We went longer than expected, but it was such good stuff that I don’t mind at all.
Cassandra: Michael, it was a pleasure.
Michael: Yeah. And guys, thank you so much for listening. I hope you’re getting as much out of this as we are. So, thank you so much. Bye bye.
Cassandra: Bye.
Call 3
Josie, 29, Engaged
So, I’m really excited to have Josie with me, my first comedienne online. Josie, say hello.
Josie: Hello!
Michael: Welcome. So Josie, tell us a little bit about who you are and just your background, how old are you, do you have kids, where you’re from. And then, we’ll kind of move on from there.
Josie: Okay! Well, I’m thirty. I don’t have kids. I am engaged to be married next year.
Michael: Oh!
Josie: Yeah! There you go.
Michael: How long have you and your fiancé been engaged?
Josie: We’ve been engaged for a year and we’ve been together for four.
Michael: Four years, great! And is that your longest relationship I’m assuming at this point — four years and…?
Josie: Actually, no.
Michael: Okay! So, you’ve probably been in a lot of long-term relationships?
Josie: A couple of them, yeah.
Michael: Okay. Great! So Josie, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate having you on. And we’re going to have a lot of fun here and just kind of help a lot of guys how basically.
Josie: Okay.
Michael: The core idea behind the Oral Fixation product is to help guys learn how to get their wife or their girlfriend to enjoy going down on them because a lot of guys really love getting blowjobs. And it seems like a lot of women don’t enjoy giving them or seem like they don’t enjoy giving them because their men don’t really understand how to make it fun for them.
So, I think the first question I have for you is as a 30-year old woman who’s about to get married, how do you feel about blowjobs, about oral sex? Is it something you really enjoy doing? Is it something you don’t like doing? And why?
Josie: I think — I don’t mind doing it. It’s not like my favorite thing or anything. But it’s definitely — I mean, I like it because it makes him super happy, right? I’ve been with people who I don’t care about as much, so I don’t really — you know, I’m not going to do it to them. Exactly!
Michael: This isn’t worth the effort. So basically, [00:02:26] like, “Yeah, you’re kind of a dick.”
Josie: Yeah, pretty much. So yeah, you know, we love each other. So yeah, it’s worth it. And yeah, I’m happy to make him happy.
Michael: Yeah, totally! That’s such a really good attitude. And I think it’s something that’s important in relationships in general; realizing that — when I talk to guys about this, when I teach guys about this, you got to make it something fun for her, too. Women really do enjoy giving pleasure as long as they feel like you deserve it, right?
Josie: Exactly!
Michael: I had previous interviews with other girls who was like, “Yeah, this one guy, he just wasn’t a giving person, so I didn’t bother.”
Josie: Aw, no good.
Michael: Talk to me kind of about your history with blowjobs like when was the first time you did it? The first time you gave a blowjob, was it kind of something you wanted to do or something you felt pressured into doing? And what was kind of your experience of it from there?
Josie: I think as always, I’ve always felt kind of pressured to do it. I never really enjoyed it or, “Yeah… no…” It’s always been like, “Oh, I should do it” or, “He really wants me to do this.”
Michael: So, it feels…
Josie: Yeah
Michael: Okay. And I’m assuming you enjoy doing it now because your fiancé enjoys doing it, but have you ever felt kind of like while you were giving a blowjob kind of resentful or just like, “Oh, get it over with. Why am I doing this?” Talk to me about your experience of that because I think you’re actually — the first couple of women I interviewed for this series are all women who really enjoyed giving head.
Josie: Oh, really?
Michael: Yeah! Yeah! So, it’s actually really valuable to have somebody on the line who’s more like, “No, not really.”
Josie: Yeah.
Michael: And I think that’s actually a much more valuable thing in a lot of ways because a lot of these women that I talked to before are like, “Oh, I just love doing it. It’s so much fun. I feel so powerful. It turns me on.” But you, you’re coming at it much more of like, “Well, I love my boyfriend. I love my fiancé, so I’ll do it.”
But when you’re giving head, what kind of goes through your mind as you’re actually going through that? Do you get any kind of stimulation mentally from it or is it really just something you’re doing because you’re just like, “Okay, I feel like I should.”
Josie: I definitely get something out of it once I see how much it turns him on. And I think the way that he approaches it is like — yes, it’s kind of a power thing for me, I guess. He’s like, “Oh, you’re so hot. It’s so good” and then, I feel better about it. I’m like, “Yeah, okay. This is great.” So, yeah. I definitely like doing it.
Michael: But it’s very much because — there’s two sides of the court I’m hearing this. One is about his pleasure because you love your fiancé and you want to him to feel really good and you can just tell by the way he reacts to you that he…
Josie: Right
Michael: …which is pleasurable for you, right? Just like with my girlfriend, I love making her cum. There’s a few things I enjoy more than making her feel really, really good because I love her and I also feel there’s a power thing there, too. So, also like the power of you having the ability to do that.
Josie: Mm-hmmm, definitely.
Michael: Yeah, that’s really interesting. And guys, if you’ve listened to some of the other calls already, this is kind of our current theme, right? There’s a whole aspect of what I talk to called this whole ‘blowjob self-esteem’ concept. But really, the idea of a woman feels like she’s good at doing something like this and that she’s giving you pleasure, it makes her feel good, right?
Josie: Yeah, that’s a really good point because I think in the past, I have been like, “Well, I don’t really know what I’m doing” like, “I don’t know how it feels.” So, I’m just like guessing. It’s like, “Oh…” But now, he’s like, “Whoa! You’re one of the best blow that I’ve ever had.” And so, of course, that helped my self-esteem.
Michael: Yeah, and it encourages you to do want to do it more because…
Josie: Exactly!
Michael: …you’re like, “I love doing this like that.”
Josie: Exactly!
Michael: And it sounds like your fiancé is — am I right in saying that your fiancé, you enjoy giving your fiancé head more than you’ve enjoyed giving head in previous relationships?
Josie: Yeah, absolutely!
Michael: Yeah. So, why — I mean, let me ask you this. But why is that? What does he do that other guys didn’t do that encouraged you and kind of get you to doing it?
Josie: Hmmm, I think besides the emotional connection that we have, I think that he’s open and we talk about it and he says what he likes. I think that’s a really big thing, being able to talk about it.
Michael: Yeah, the feedback too, right? Like just being able to — because something I’ve experienced in my own life, there’s nothing worst than like going down — I had an ex- girlfriend who I would go down on her and she would just lay there, right?
Josie: Oh, yeah! I mean, “What? Am I doing something right or wrong?”
Michael: So, why even — I believe she would say, “Oh, that felt so good.” I’m like, “Maybe you could move your hips a little or say something else like…”
Josie: Oh, no!
Michael: But I’m not really getting up on this. It’s like playing a video game [00:07:16], What’s the point? Yeah.
Josie: Yeah, that’s kind of weird.
Michael: Yeah, totally. So, when you think about giving a blowjob, what kind of emotions go through you? If you’re sitting here and we’re saying like think back to the last time you gave your fiancé a blowjob, what kind of goes through you? What kind of goes through your mind?
Josie: I kind of get excited about it. I mean, I don’t always want to do it. It’s not every single time or anything. But yeah, no! I look forward to it. Yeah, I like it. Happy about it.
Michael: Cool! So, there’s some kind of a little bit of a thrill or some level of anticipation or like, “Yeah! That’s something…”
Josie: Yeah! Yeah, exactly!
Michael: Okay. Now, earlier in your life like you know, you said you always kind of did blowjobs kind of because they wanted you to. Were there times in the past with the men you’ve been with where you were just like — where you wouldn’t feel that way, right? It would feel like it was something you just kind of had to do or what with past boyfriends or other men?
Josie: Yeah, I think that’s more — you know, when I was just dating people casually or whatever. Yeah.
Michael: And why do you think it was that you weren’t enjoying it as much with them?
Josie: Well, I think the emotional connection wasn’t there, as well and just not knowing — I don’t want to say this, not knowing if it’s really worth it. Like I don’t know how I feel about this guys.
Michael: That’s really interesting, yeah. Yeah, okay.
Josie: Yeah
Michael: So, there’s almost like a trade thing going off there. So, you’re almost feeling like you only want to do this for a guy who’s got potential in a way?
Josie: I guess so, yeah. I don’t know.
Michael: Maybe subconsciously, you were just kind of like — you have those kind of a thing.
Josie: Yeah.
Michael: But that’s really interesting because for some women, they really do get off on just the actual act of giving a blowjob. It can be really just fun.
Like I was talking to one of my interviews. And she was just saying that like from a purely physical standpoint, she really enjoyed the feeling of her man’s cock in her mouth kind of thing and the way that feels. And I know for some women, that’s kind of new. And actually, I had in my own life — I discovered that you can kind of help a woman start developing that kind of thing because a woman’s mouth is a very sensitive, sexy thing. And the mistake a lot of guys make is they think it’s like, “Okay, she’s just doing this for you.” But really, you’ve got to figure one of the most pleasurable things a man and a woman can do (or two men or two women, whatever) is kiss, right?
Josie: Right! Definitely!
Michael: …which is all mouth and all things like that. So, one of the things I teach the guys is you kind of like wake up the idea with your wife or your girlfriend like getting a physical sensation out of this kind of thing and a kind of enjoyment that way.
Josie: Right
Michael: And I find a lot of woman who when you start breaking that up, “Well, yeah. Actually, it does feel kind of good.” And they’re right.
One say like they started stopping making it something that they’re doing for a guy and more as something that they do together…
Josie: Right.
Michael: …this is the whole core concept of what I’m kind of doing.
Josie: Yeah, I know. That’s a good point. That’s something you do together for sure. Yeah.
Michael: If a guy like begs for a blowjob, how does that feel to you?
Josie: I don’t like it, no.
Michael: Yeah.
Josie: No.
Michael: No. Yeah.
Josie: It’s just kind of…or…
Michael: Yeah, totally! Yeah, a lot of guys, “Oh, hi! Give me some head.” And it’s like yeah, that’s probably the sexiest thing known to men, right?
Josie: Yeah, pretty much.
Michael: When your fiancé wants a blowjob, whether it’s kind of a precursor to sex itself or in some — how does he kind of bring that topic up that works for you? I know obviously you don’t want to do it every single time. That’s fine. But it seems like you do enjoy it at least some of the time and how does he…
Josie: Yeah.
Michael:…bring it up and warms you up to the idea?
Josie: I think it’s more his body language.
Michael: Uh-huh, okay.
Josie: We don’t be like, “Oh, hey! How about a blowjob now?” It’s more — we’re already together .
Michael: He just sends you a text. Yeah, excellent!
Josie: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, he texted me there.
Michael: It’s an idea from my product, so you know…
Josie: Exactly! It works!
Josie: Yeah, it works great. Yeah, it’s just body language or he’ll ask. But yeah, it’s not like a big discussion or anything.
Michael: Do you consider your fiancé a giving lover himself, as someone who…?
Josie: Yeah.
Michael: So, he’s kind of somebody who’s interested in doing things for you, too.
Josie: Yeah. Yeah.
Michael: Is there anything that he doesn’t do for you?
Josie: I don’t think so, nothing that I’ve found yet.
Michael:…sinus these alien tentacles. Let’s see where this…
Joise: Yeah, maybe not that. I don’t know. I’ll let you know.
Michael: I might cut you off there a little bit about your reason.
Josie: Yeah. No, he’s really giving all around, you know? Not just in bed, but in life in general. So…
Michael: Yeah, that seems like a current theme at some of these interviews. It’s like more than just — I think this actually extends probably a lot more than just blowjobs and also, just sex, in general. It seems like every woman I talk to — there’s something about a guy just deserving a blowjob or not in a weird sort of way, right? And the idea of like if he’s a selfish guy, then women don’t want to do that, right? Whereas, if he’s a guy who’s giving not just sexually, but as a person, somebody who’s generous with a woman, somebody who takes care of a woman well and makes her feel good, then he’s a lot more likely to get head.
Josie: Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Michael: Yeah.
Josie: Yeah. She probably…less I would say.
Michael: Yeah, I think it’s like chivalry, but it’s also about respect to a certain degree and making a woman feel good and showing — and also, to my read of it and the way I kind of teach guys to deal with this is like it’s largely about making it her idea and making it something she wants to do.
Josie: Mm-hmmm .
Michael: Right? The mistake that guys make is, “Damn it, bitch! Give me a blowjob.”
Josie: Yeah, and you don’t want to see all too dominating or…
Michael: Yeah, exactly!
Josie:… anything like that.
Michael: Yeah, it’s got to be something that’s kind of a fun give-and-take. Now, a lot of guys who are listening to this are guys who are kind of like, “Well…” — you know, maybe they got married. It’s been three or four years since they got a blowjob. And they’re like, “What do I do? How do I kind of get this back?” What would you — you know, there’s a lot of tension in their relationship generally speaking because they’ve got kids, they’ve got jobs. There’s so much going on. Money might be tight, all these kinds of things are going on. And really, it just feels kind of dominant in a way, I suppose. But I don’t think it is. Blowjobs are important to guys. There’s something so powerful about that. For a guy who is in a situation where he hasn’t had that kind of thing (and even other sexual things are closed off, as well), as a woman who he might even see as maybe less sexual in a lot of sort of way (though I think women get sexier and have higher libido as time goes on), what advice would you give a guy who really wants to get back to a) just having that sexual connection with his life or his girlfriend, but b) getting a really good blowjob? What advice will you give him about how to approach that subject with his woman?
Josie: Like to discuss it with her or just to make it happen?
Michael: Well, mostly discuss, but anything just to make it happen — either way. If discussion is the way to go, that’s great. But what advice would you give him to kind of try to figure out how to make that happen for me.
Josie: Hmmm, that is tough because I’m not really in that situation, but — hmmm… I don’t know! I would say first of all, be really kind to her all the time. Just show initiative. Just — you know, rub her shoulders or help her out in the kitchen or just give her a hand here and there and just really stress the importance of having a close relationship especially if you’re married. You don’t want to lose it. I mean, yeah! It’s tremendously important to stay connected on all levels on your marriage.
Michael: And what about the aspect of — some of this used to happen a lot in relationships for somebody who have been in long-term relationships is kind of forgetting that the other person is sexy…
Josie: Yeah.
Michael: …in a weird sort of way, right?
Josie: Yeah.
Michael: And I see this on both sides of the equation where it’s like, “Oh, yeah! My husband is really hot” or, “My wife is really hot” or, “My girlfriend is really hot, I forgot.” And I know a lot of women in life (I know in my life, kind of what motivated me to create these products in the first places) are women who are just like, “God! My husband haven’t worked in me like he wants to fuck me and forever,” like actually lust.
Josie: Right, yeah!
Michael: And I think, that is largely about kind of you turn a woman on by reminding her how sexy she is and telling her how she’s got power over you and raising up her self- esteem, right?
Josie: Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. I think that’s really true.
Michael: So, what kind of — is there anything your fiancé does to kind of remind you that you’re hot, that you’re somebody desirable or…
Josie: He just tells me all the time actually. I mean, that way. Yes! Just to…
Michael: I think it’s — yeah! Because I think a lot of guys are scared of doing that kind of thing, right? A lot of times…
Josie: Yeah, and I don’t think they should be.
Michael: I don’t think they should be doing it.
Josie: …unless it’s very evident that they’re lying or something, then you have…
Michael: Yeah! I never tell anybody lie in their relationship. But I think it’s interesting — I like getting women on the line to talk about these kinds of things. I would just tell a guy just walk up to your girl and tell her she’s got a fucking beautiful ass and it makes you want to do dirty things to her.
Josie: Yeah!
Michael: They’re like, “I could never do that.”
Josie: Yeah! That works, though.
Michael: You really can.
Josie: Like you really should.
Michael: You really should. You really should. I get away even with women who I’m not dating, I get away with some incredibly dirty things on a regular basis. And instead of getting a slap, I get thanked.
Josie: Mm-hmmm .
Michael: Where it’s like I’ll say to a woman who’s a friend of mine in a non-creepy way (you dont want to do this… or anything like that, but I’ll say, “God! You’ve got the most beautiful mouth and I just can’t stop thinking about what it would like if you were like smiling at me with my cock in my mouth.” And I’ll say that to a girl who I know is a friend. And they’ll, “Oh, that’s so sweet,” right?
Josie: But make sure you know her before you say that.
Michael: Totally! You don’t want to do that to a stranger unless you’re actually trying to hit on her. And even then, you’ve go to be careful.
Josie: And even is not a good idea…
Michael: Yeah
Josie: I don’t think.
Michael: But the key there is the fact that people want to be desired, right?
Josie: Yeah, absolutely!
Michael: And if you’re with a woman, it’s your job to make her feel desired, right?
Josie: Mm-hmmm …
Michael: You are the one person who above and beyond anybody else should be making her feel really desired. And that can be using language like that, using things which you think, “Wow! You know, I just want to…” whatever it’s going to be, whatever she’s — a gazillion of things, hair-pulling or just like touching her neck or she’s beautiful or whatever else. I think it’s just important to confirm the guys that are listening yes, you can say this kind of thing. And if you start doing it, she’ll want it more.
Josie: Exactly.
Michael: And it will lead to better…feel appreciated.
Josie: And maybe at first it will be awkward, but then, you know, keep trying.
Michael: Yeah that’s one thing I teach with my…I have guys who write me and they say, “Oh, I sent one text message and it didn’t work.” And I’m like, “Why don’t you try again?” You should know.
Josie: Yeah, ease your way in. Start with little things. That, totally!
Michael: Yeah, yeah! Build your way up slowly and get her to the point that she — I think some women are just like they don’t trust that it works, right?
Josie: Exactly! Coming from…
Michael: But
Josie:…especially if you’re in a relationship for a long time and then, you’re just starting. You can kind of wonder.
Michael: And it’s like, “Okay! You normally only ever send me messages about picking up milk. And now, you’re sending me text messages about how you love the smell of my hair and want to bend me over the couch? Uh, what…?”
Josie: Exactly! Yeah, it’s going to maybe raise some questions if you do that.
Michael: So, those are really great actually. So, I think the core lessons we kind of get out of this are — you know, it’s really great having somebody who is just not like a big blowjob enthusiast on the planet, right?
Josie: Yeah!
Michael: Because you’re like yeah, it’s something that you would do yourself. It not like you’re like sitting around thinking about things to suck on all the time.
Josie: Exactly!
Michael: Exactly. But it is something that you enjoy, that you’ve kind of learned to enjoy doing for your man.
Josie: Right, exactly!
Michael: And here’s a valuable lesson for guys who are listening about you want to be that guy. When I was single, I kind of had my year of debauchery, I call it. It was like [00:20:17] I was seeing. And I was like, “Okay! Why are you doing these things with me, but you won’t do it with these other guys you used to date or your ex-husband or anything like that?” And it’s all about the positivity.
Josie: It is.
Michael: Yeah. It’s all about like what you said before like he makes you feel like you’re great at it. He makes you feel like you’re incredibly sexy when you’re doing that and how that extends all the way across anything in your relationship sexually. If you make a woman feel like she’s great at something, she’ll want to do more of it because she wants to praise, she wants the love and all those kinds of things.
Josie: Yeah.
Michael: So, that’s really, really valuable stuff. So Josie, it’s been fantastic. Thank you so much for joining me on this call.
Josie: No problem.
Michael: And your fiancé sounds like a lucky guy.
Josie: Yeah. Well, I’m lucky, too.
Michael: Okay, great! Thank you so much.
Josie: Okay, thanks.
Call 4
Ann, 34, Married One Year
Michael: Hello, folks. How are you? This is Michael Fiore again with another one of our Blowjob Interviews. As you know, if you’ve been listening to these, the goal of this interviews is to get real women’s perspectives on oral sex, on giving head, blowjobs — all these wonderful things that we like. As you know — you’ve probably gone through the Oral Fixation program by now that talks a lot about how to get a woman to really enjoy giving you head and really get as much pleasure psychologically and even physically out of it as you do. And I think the best way to really hammer home the point how these things work is to real live actual women talk about it.
And I’m very happy to have my friend, Ann on the line here with me.
Ann: Hello!
Hello! Ann, thank you so much for doing this for us. It’s been really fun for me as I try to find women to do these kinds of things how eager you really are to expose the truth about blowjobs from a women’s perspective…
Ann: Great!
Michael: …as far as it is because I think so many men have no freaking idea. So…
Ann: I would agree with you.
Michael: Yeah. Ann, why don’t you give us just quickly a little bit of a background on you — how old are you; are you married/unmarried; kids/no kids; professional? I mean, I know you’re a very strong professional woman, so just give us kind of a background on that.
Ann: Sure! I am 34 years old and I’ve been married for one year. I do not have any children yet. I am a lawyer. And I think that’s part of it all, yeah?
Michael: That really did. Yeah, yeah. Great! So, the goal for me really is I’ve been trying to get like a variety of people and a variety of relationships, too. I’ve been lucky enough now to find one or two single people. I’ve interviewed somebody yesterday who is about to get married. You’ve only been married for a short amount of time. Another friend of mine haven’t had her marriage for fifteen years. That’s some really great insight into kind of how that works.
When I say the word ‘blowjob’, what feelings or thoughts goes through your mind?
Ann: Well, when you use that term for it, it just takes me back to high school I have to say when I thought that you were looking for people to interview about the topic of blowjobs, specifically women to interview and I typed that message to you, I put the word ‘blowjobs’ in the title line and I thought, “I feel like I’m back in high school again.”
So, I guess that one side of what it makes me feel when I hear about…
Michael: Yeah! Tell us about that really quickly. When you think about that high school thing, is that exciting or is that something you don’t like or is it something you do like, that connotations of that term and the way it makes you feel? What does that mean to you?
Ann: I think that my view and understanding of what a blowjob is and how it feels and all that has evolved too much since high school. I was not sexually active in high school. So, I was that late when we’re in that area of life. So, in high school, I can tell you that — I mean, you know, the kind of the embarrassed, kids teetering over, anything having to do with sex. So, that’s how I would’ve felt about the term as a high school. Thinking back on it now, I’m actually quite rabid. It wasn’t something into that with the first guy. He gave me that opportunity when I was that age.
Michael: Yeah, of course.
Ann: But my personal feeling about blowjobs in general is that I like them very much. And I don’t kind of really care what we call it anymore.
Michael: What do you and your husband refer to that? Do you use the word ‘blowjob’? How do you and your husband talk about it?
Ann: Sometimes, we use ‘blowjobs’. Sometimes I say, “I want to go down on you.” Sometimes he asks me if I’ll give him head? So, you know, we kind of…
Michael: Yeah! You’ve got a bunch of euphemistic terms.
Ann: Yeah.
Michael: So Ann, could you describe your feeling towards the act. I mean, you say you like doing it a lot. But has that evolved over time? Like the first time you gave a blowjob, was it something you’re just like, “Oh, I really like doing this” or was it something you had to kind of learn to like? What was that first experience like for you?
Ann: The first time, I was extraordinarily nervous. I thought that I would be good and I was intrigued by it, but I didn’t know enough about it. I had never done it, so I didn’t know if I would like it or not. I was indeed good at it and I did like that, but it was kind of nerve- wracking. I mean, you know?
Michael: Yeah
Ann: But for a thing that guys builds up to this, it’s something out of proportion. And girls know that guys love it and talk about it all the time and want it all the time. So, when a woman, I think, does it for the first time, it’s a little intimidating. But I would say…
Michael: So, it’s almost like a level of performance anxiety, right?
Ann: Yes, exactly!
Michael: Like if you were capable of losing your heart on, maybe you would’ve lost your heart while you were doing it because you’re like, “Oh, my God! I wonder if he’s going to like it. I wonder if — am I going to be any good at this.”
Ann: Yes.
Michael: Yeah. The first guy you gave a blowjob to, did he make it a really fun experience for you and what did he do right or what did he do wrong? Because here’s one of the things that come up a lot when I talk to women and I talk to men about this…
Ann: Mm-hmmm …?
Michael: …is that first experience matters so much.
Ann: Yeah.
Michael: That first blowjob a woman gives colors her appreciation or hatred of that act forever from then on, right? And so, I’m always interested for women — it’s interesting because the women I’ve interviewed are more blowjobs fans than people that didn’t like them. I had one or two who really didn’t like them. And they’ve been really valuable, too.
Ann: Right.
Michael: But I think it’s like usually, they have a positive experience. So, with that first time, what was it like for you? What did he do that made it either work or not work for you?
Ann: Well, he really, really liked it. So, I think you know he shows that physically in terms of interacting while I was going down on him. And I think just in general, that’s something that I appreciate a lot and that…
Michael: Can you give us just some example of what he physically did that really made you feel — and how it kind of affected you when you did so?
Ann: Oh! Yeah! Just rubbing my arms or putting his hands on my hair and making a little bit of noise. That one is maybe optional I suppose. But I’ve gone down on maybe half a dozen guys in my life and a couple of them were — it’s not that they didn’t enjoy it. But their version of enjoying it was just to sort of lay back and close their eyes and just get lost in the moment. And for me, sex is very relational. So, I like the interaction side of it.
And it almost feels like being shut out. And I know that’s not the intention. But for the purposes of what I enjoy the most, it’s when a guy communicates that he’s enjoying it whether it’s verbally or just by touching and even like maybe showing me what he likes. I have no problem with that either as long as it’s not forceful. So, the first time I went down on a guy, he was very expressive about the fact that he liked it as much as he did. And then, after the fact, was also verbally really appreciative of it and said, “Oh, you’re a natural. And your mouth is so beautiful,” and whatever.
And so, I think women respond — for me, anyway (I guess I can’t speak for women, in general), but for me, what I respond to is that relational aspect of it, the interaction while it’s happening, but also the — you know, to be complemented on it after the fact is also…
Michael: Yeah. It’s just totally interesting for me because like I did a bunch of research for this product before I started creating it. And a lot of what I’ve heard then and a lot of what I’ve heard from you and from the other women I’ve interviewed was the same thing. It’s like so much of it is what I call blowjob self-esteem, which is kind of a funny term for a very serious thing, which is in general, I find sexually, women like doing things they’re considered to be good at.
Ann: Yeah!
Michael: And it’s like if a woman she’s bad at giving head, she’s never going to want to give head because nobody wants to be judged, right?
Ann: Absolutely! I mean, if you flip the gender, if a guy feels like he’s horrible at going down on a woman, he’s not going to be inclined to do it all that often [cross-talking].
Michael: Yeah, exactly. They’re going to whine. He’s just going to make fun of it.
Ann: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah, exactly. “I don’t want to. He’s going to make fun of me.” Yeah, exactly. But there’s really this thing there about — for guys, it’s really important for me to hammer this point home — Anna’s saying that the first time she did it, what made it worked for her was the feedback from the guy.
Ann: Yes.
Michael: Right? And the physical feedback, the way he touched her — you know, the whole touch- on-the-head thing is actually a hot button for a lot of women.
Ann: yes.
Michael: Because a lot of women unfortunately do have traumatic experiences around this kind of thing that they had to kind of work — a lot of women have traumatic experiences around sex in general, which is really unfortunate.
Ann: Right.
Michael: But you have to kind of work around that. But just like the showing appreciation for — and this is true in life general — show appreciation for your woman.
Ann: Yeah.
Michael: If a woman is valued and she feels loved or appreciated, I guarantee it. Cool! So, talk to me a little about kind of what is it about giving a blowjob that you really enjoy?
Ann: You know for me, I think it’s maybe a sense of power — not so much power over another person, but the power that I have to bring someone to that condition. That I can with very little effort bring such extreme pleasure to somebody is really exciting for me. And so, I don’t know if ‘power’ is the right word for it so much as just knowing that I did something that doesn’t seem very difficult to me that brought extreme pleasure to my partner. That’s just really gratifying.
Michael: That you literally blew his mind.
Ann: Yes, exactly.
Michael: That, and that you’re good at that and you have the ability to that, to have that kind of an effect on a person.
And actually, I think this is true of humanity, in general. I really personally take a lot of pride in my ability to make a woman feel good.
Ann: Right!
Michael: It’s something I just really take — I know I’m good at it. I like being good at it. It’s something my girlfriend really enjoys. I do all these things for her to make her extremely happy.
Ann: Right.
Michael: There’s a lot to that. I think there’s something that I try to teach you guys, which is if you want to get your girlfriend or your wife to give you a blowjob, the key is to make it not something she does to you, but it’s something you guys do together.
Ann: Yes.
Michael: Can you kind of talk a little bit about what that concept means to you or how guys can kind of help to accomplish that?
Ann: I think for me it just goes back to what I said before about wanting to be interactive. If I am going to go down on you and you’re just going to lay there and yes, physically enjoy it, but not participate at all, it really dims the pleasure of it for me. But if you are participating in it with me and letting me know with your body or with your voice or whatever that it’s enjoyable to you —
You know, it is that thing that you talked about; being appreciated, knowing that the man that you’re with absolutely loves what it is that you are doing to him and is participating with you in that process. That to me makes all the difference in the world.
And I can honestly say that the guys — I did mention a couple of the guys that I’ve been with who were less interactive than the others and certainly than my husband now, I didn’t go down on them as much. It just wasn’t as fun.
Michael: And why would you?
Ann: It wasn’t a conscious, the not giving you head thing. It was just that I was not as motivated to do it independently because it wasn’t as fun.
Michael: Yeah, it totally makes sense. It totally makes sense. Now, let’s talk about interaction a little bit. Some guys — let’s talk about porn for a second because I think it’s especially an important kind of thing. I don’t know if you’ve watched a lot of porn. I have because I’m a guy. We watch porn. And if any guy tells you he doesn’t watch porn, he’s lying.
Ann: He’s lying.
Michael: Or maybe he’s Amish. But I’m sure even the Amish have like stick figures of, you know, whatever else like, “Let’s go race a barn” or something.
Ann: Yeah!
Michael: But porn often does give guys a twisted version of what a blowjob is, right?
Ann: Yeah.
Michael: Personally, there are women out there who really do like the rough kind of aspect of things. And a lot of them get into porn strangely enough. But I think some guys, they kind of get this idea that what they really want is to basically face fuck a girl and grabbing the back of their head and jamming their cock down their throat and maybe even saying, “Yeah, bitch! Suck my dick,” things like that, right?
And it’s something I had to kind of battle a bit in what I teach these guys. I’m like, “Listen…” So, let’s talk about this. If your partner, your husband wanted that kind of thing, what would your reaction be?
Ann: My husband does watch porn. I do not nearly as much I think as most guys.
Michael: Sure! We’re perverts, yeah.
Ann: Yeah. Every once in a while, he’ll come into the bedroom with an idea that he’s bringing from something that he’d seen and what he watches. And the way he approaches it is really respectful and not forceful at all, so I don’t mind it. I also have no problem saying on if it’s something that’s outside my comfort zone.
Michael: Right.
Ann: And I think the part where porn kind of sometimes interferes with sex in real life is the whole idea — for example, most women that I know cannot deepthroat a guy.
Michael: No. No, not at all. No.
Ann: And as every porn that you ever watched where women is giving the guy a blowjob, she’s deepthroating him, then guys sort of develop this expectation that that’s part of how it works.
Michael: But she’s deepthroating a 12” dong, too.
Ann: Yes, exactly! Exactly! Not to mention. I’m really just a bit excited over here.
Michael: Yeah, just a little. A little.
Ann: So, I never had my husband come and say that he wanted to do something quite as — not violent, but as rough as what you’re referencing. But we actually have had blowjob experiences like …because it’s less about me going down on him and more about him using my mouth in that way maybe.
Michael: Yeah, yeah. Great! Mm-hmmm.
Ann: And he’s again really good about respecting my boundaries so it doesn’t bother me because of the way he handles it.
Michael: Beautiful! Here’s the real core point, guys. Listen to this. What Ann is saying is essentially — our core concept that we’re trying to teach you is like if you want to disrespect a woman sexually, you need to make sure you respect her a lot first.
Ann: Yeah.
Michael: I mean, a lot of guys do — I mean, I am myself in my own sexual life. I had partners and even my current girlfriend where I can get very dominant and we can have a lot of fun and we would play those games, right? But we both know it’s a game from the beginning. She fundamentally knows that I love her and I adore her and find her really beautiful. And because of that, she can let herself go to that place where she can be really submissive and I can be kind of dominant. We can do kind of dirty things.
But for the guys who are listening, that’s varsity of our play like you have to earn your way up to that with most women. There are of course going to be some women who are just totally into ‘whip me, beat me, throw me down’ from the beginning, but they’re very rare.
Ann: Yeah.
Michael: So, most women who are real women, they will go there if you earn it.
Ann: Yes. And only if you earn it.
Michael: Only if you earn it. And that’s the important part. So, the core points I think you’ve kind of covered so far are about the idea of giving appreciation and really being a good blowjob subject, as it were; making sure — you said something else before about making sure afterwards like how your husband or your guy would say, “Oh, you’ve got the most beautiful mouth, the most beautiful lips. You’re so good at that. You are just wonderful at that kind of thing,” which is fun, really fantastic.
Do you have friends who don’t like giving blowjobs?
Ann: I can’t say that I can think of someone off the top of my head that really dislikes it. As the discussion that kind of happens a little bit more within my group of friends is the perennial to-spit-or-to-swallow discussion.
Michael: Oh, okay! Great! Great!
Ann: But I can’t really think of anybody that I know that really dislikes it. It’s probably unusual and maybe a friend of mine does and it’s just not someone that I talk about sex with, but I can’t think of anybody off the top of my head.
Michael: I would love to — like guys have no idea how much women talk about sex, which I always find kind of hilarious. Guys, we kind of grunt about it. We don’t really have these conversations.
Ann: No, we talk about it a lot of the time.
Michael: And women talk about it in deep, deep — like, you know? Like I’m sure every girl friend of my girlfriend knows like everything about my anatomy and technique.
Ann: Yeah! I don’t know why it feels more acceptable for girls to talk about it. Truthfully, I think we have a little bit of a double standard. If we found out that our man was talking about the details of our sex life with his guys, I think most women would be offended by that or a lot of women anyways. But we do. We have a total double standard because we talk about it all the time.
Michael: It’s really interesting. It’s always shocking to a man when they’re like, “What do you mean? You told your friends that you told your friends that I like to be tied up and wear unicorn horns? What are you doing?” It’s like, “Whoa! I thought we were friends… [mumbling].” Guys, there are no secrets.
Ann: Yeah, you can pretty much [cross-talking] what you’re doing with your girlfriend or your woman, she’s talking about with her friends.
Michael: Yeah, totally. And usually, often times, bragging about it.
Ann: Yeah.
Michael: One of the things I — I get emails from guys who buy my products who were like, “Oh, my God! My girlfriend keeps bragging about the text messages I was sending her,” or things like that. I’m like, “Oh, yeah. That’s going to happen.” So, it’s all part of it.
Going back to this spit-or-swallow thing a little bit, what is your feeling on that? And how does that conversation kind of go?
Ann: My personal opinion on it is that I have no problem swallowing. I’ve never been a spitter. I think for me, it feels like it sort of breaks the mood like we’re in this hot, sexy moment and, “Oh, wait a minute. I’ve got to find a garbage can to spit into.”
Michael: Yeah, totally.
Ann: It just completely derails the whole process for me. But there are a lot of women who don’t like to swallow. And I think reasons are varied. Someone I’ve asked is worried about the nutritional value, which is ridiculous to me because there’s like — I don’t know, five calories in it or something?
Michael: Yeah, yeah. It’s not really… yeah.
Ann: Other women talk about the taste. And the taste really is different from — not only from partner to partner, but also depending on what you’ve been eating that day.
Michael: Mm-hmmm!
Ann: So, if you’re eating something — I’ve heard the same is true for women. I don’t know. I’ve never gone down on a woman, but if you eat strawberries and pineapple in a day, that’s going to create a certain taste. If you eat a lot of red meat and garlic or something, that’s going to create a different taste.
Michael: Yeah, I would say that I find that true myself, yeah. Just because…
Ann: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah. That’s really, really interesting that way.
Ann: And someone might think that swallowing as like dirty in some way. And I really don’t know why, but I think they’ve equated maybe with porn or with hookers or with something.
Michael: I think it’s a culturization thing largely.
Ann: Yeah, I think it probably is.
Michael: And the same thing with like — with anything sexually really. There are so many things that seem start taboo to people. And so, they start doing them. And then, they’re just kind of fun.
Ann: Yeah. It’s illogical to me though that a woman would be okay with going down on a guy, but not okay with swallowing.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah, I know.
Ann: it’s not intended as a judgment of someone’s opinion. But if you don’t have a taboo about giving a blowjob, then why do you have a taboo about swallowing when you’re giving a blowjob. I just don’t get it.
Michael: It’s almost like people, women I know who are relatively — I’ll say promiscuous not in a judgmental way because I don’t think there’s anything particularly wrong with that. But women who are more promiscuous who will suck a guy, but won’t kiss him.
Ann: Right.
Michael: It’s like, “Really?!” It’s like, “Okay.” And .
Ann: I think so, too.
Michael: Yeah. Emotionally, what does a blowjob mean to you? I’ve interviewed someone who kind of talked about how to them a blowjob was more intimate than sex itself, right?
Ann: I don’t think that I would say that it’s more intimate than sex, but I would say that giving a blowjob is something that is reserved for someone special. And not that sex is not. I cannot see someone that — as my history is pretty limited sexually. I think I have been with maybe just a handful of guys. But if I’m going to sleep with you on the first day, I’m not going to blow you on the first date. So, for me, it is something that is reserved for someone that I have a little bit more trust with.
Michael: Yeah, that seems reoccurring for a lot of women I talk to actually.
Ann: And I think it’s because — I think it’s been for a number of reasons for me. One is physically — I mean, you’re a lot closer to a guy when your face is in his groin. There’s like a whole level of sensory input there that you don’t get when you’re having sex with them, one. But the other thing is — for me, anyways — it’s a somewhat vulnerable thing to do.
Michael: Mm-hmmm , okay.
Ann: At least that’s how I feel like it. And I don’t mean so much as somebody could hurt you while you’re doing it. I guess maybe it’s just because of the maybe the image of being down on your knees or whatever it happens to be. But it does feel like a more vulnerable thing for me. And I know that guys like it. And I’m sorry, but I’m not just going to give that anybody. So, it’s something that I reserve for a serious relationship.
Michael: Yeah, that totally makes sense to me. I’m just thinking about my own single life back in my single days when I was pretty promiscuous myself (that’s before me and my girlfriend met). And it was interesting that I found myself — maybe it’s just the type of women I always hang out with, I think they’re all lovely, beautiful, intelligent, fun women. But it’s funny that I know women who say a blowjob is very emotionally important to them who, when we were kind of messing around had no trouble of giving me head even though they knew it wasn’t going to turn into a relationship. That wasn’t the kind of situation and it was more just we’re having fun. I can be pretty open about these things.
I heard you something very interesting, that kind of like what is that emotional thing that guys can do to make a woman feel like it’s okay to go there with them. And then, trying to figure that out to some degree.
For guys who are listening, for me, it’s largely about the attitude of the guy and the giving that’s from the guy and being — not just giving sexually like, “Oh, I went down on her. She should get down on me.” Guys in general, if you really want to have great sex with women (whether it’s one woman or a variety of woman), don’t have expectations and you’ll do a lot better.
Ann: Yeah.
Michael: And expectations kill your chances let me tell you. But I think there’s something about us being giving and being somebody who women can feel they can trust and who they feel like they can be with in a non-judgmental way. I think there’s something valuable there for [00:22:01]. I think more than guys, women do not want to be judged in my experience.
Ann: I cannot agree with that more.
Michael: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about — what I’m trying to get to is like the cultural expectation of sex in our culture. And I think I like having women talk about what it’s like to be a woman in our culture where there are lots of magazine in every street corner and there’s Megan Fox in Transformers, which is a kids’ movie, but she’s dressed like a stripper, right?
Ann: Right.
Michael: What does that do to a woman’s sexual self-esteem? And how do you build up your sexual self-esteem in the face of these impossible ideals.
Ann: I think my answer, my perspective on this is probably pretty unique. I was extremely obese for most of my adult life. I was between 250 and 300 lbs. until — well, within the last few years. So, I’ve lost a ton of weight. And for the first time, I had a healthy weight. So, I can speak that probably not from the perspective of the average, may normal size American woman because I haven’t been that for most of my life. But from the perspective of someone who is far outside the norm, it’s kind of crippling emotionally. I mean, you look at these images and these magazines that now, of course, as an adult, I know Photoshop .
Michael: Oh, God. Yeah, yeah.
Ann: And please do not even know how that person looks in real life, let alone how normal people who aren’t people that aren’t paid to…
Michael: They shave around 30 lbs., right?
Ann: Right! Exactly! And then, you read stories like Julienne Michaels, the trainer on the Biggest Loser. Her fighting weight normally is 125, but when she’s on TV, she goes down to 115. So, you start to realize how unrealistic these images are that we’re looking at all the time.
It’s hard and I think what I would say — I just was talking to a friend earlier today about how when I was seventeen and if I was twelve, I felt like I was huge and how I wished there was a way to reach girls at that age before they get caught up in all these images of false perfection, I guess — it might be a way to say it.
For me, the single biggest factor in building my sexual self-esteem was being with a man who adored me. And I was almost my biggest at that time. Until that point of my life (I was in my early 20s), I couldn’t even imagine that a guy would just think I was amazing…
Michael: …gorge ous.
Ann: …just as I was without having to lose weight or whatever. Having somebody think I was that beautiful was really, really powerful for me because I started to believe it for myself.
Michael: And when you started believing that, it becomes easier to think about losing weight, too in a weird sort of way.
Ann: Absolutely! Absolutely! There’s a part of me that I sometimes think, “I wish I have done this when I was younger.” And I think I wouldn’t have been able to do it when I was younger. I wouldn’t have been able to sustain it because I was — you know, kind of still all messed mentally and emotionally.
Michael: Of course, like we all are.
Ann: Yeah, right! And I had time to start doing the work on myself mentally and emotionally now as 34. I’ve done most of that hard work. I’m sure there will still be more. But for now, it’s really like, “Now, I’ve done all the hard work. Now, I just need to lose weight.”
So, part of what happened for me too being with a woman who thought I was so just extraordinarily beautiful and he told me all the time was that I started to believe it. And part of the side effects of that for me was that I didn’t lose a pound and I had more attention from them because my self confidence jumped through so quickly.
And so, I think for a lot of women, we place too much of an emphasis on how we look. I hear women..
Michael: Well, yeah. I mean, if a man’s attitude is — I mean, surely there are physically I personally like or dislike more than others, right?
Ann: Sure. Yes.
Michael: But attitude is worth so much.
Ann: Absolutely! Absolutely!
Michael: And currently, particularly my girlfriend (whose name I will not mention because she made me promise)…
Ann: That’s okay.
MichaeI: tell her, “God! You are so fucking gorgeous,” and she says, “I know.” And it turns me on like crazy. I’m just like, “Oh, yeah!” She’s not doing that — you know bash or like, “Oh, you’re just saying that thing.”
This is a really important point I think. This is kind of a feel to the blowjob, but I think it’s still very important. The blowjob thing is really part of a much bigger deal, right? Everything I teach you guys is like it’s really about how to make a woman feel appreciated. And a blowjob is almost like a side effect. It’s like you’ll get a blowjob and you’ll get a lot more other things, too. You’ll get her to want to do all sorts of fun stuff that you never thought you’d be able to get a partner to do everything [00:26:44] if you kind of learn these things.
But a lot of guys who are married who are on my list, who are people who buy my products. And they say, “Michael, I tell my wife she’s gorgeous. I tell my wife I love her ass. I tell my wife I just want to bend her over the couch and fuck her and she’s the most beautiful woman in the world. She says, ‘Oh, you’re just my husband. You have to say that.’” And it’s really common. It’s like a really common thing where there’s something there about the fact that it’s their particular man, their husband or boyfriend who’s saying it who lessens the power of what they’re saying. And you guys are heartbroken because their wives, their girlfriends are like, “Well, I don’t look like Megan Fox. And therefore, you must not really think that.”
Ann: Yeah, I think that’s a croc.
Michael: I think yeah. Yeah, I agree.
Ann: My husband — I was with my husband yesterday before I left for work and had a particularly cute outfit on. And he was half asleep and grabbed me from the bed and mumbled something about how great I was looking. I don’t care about what other people. I care what you think. And that’s what you think. And so, there’s nothing that warms her more than hearing you say something like that.
Michael: And you know it’s true. So, what is it that he does and the way he’s doing because really, there is this problem with guys with like, “I tried this and she doesn’t believe me.” And I think that’s largely damage that’s been done to the woman at that point whether it’s a cultural thing — and sometimes, it’s really funny to me that oftentimes these women that do have close to model quality bodies who are most insecure, which is really freaky. They’re also really bad dancers and awful in bed. I’ve had — yeah. Anyway, . And you see her on the dance floor, she’s like slowly shifting from foot to foot and you’re like…
…”You would be awful in bed, why would I even bother? Why even bother putting the work in?” But these women who are just like they’re so down on themselves that they just can’t believe what — and it’s funny, the weird thing is if a guy like me who they don’t know (I’m pretty good-looking and confident), if I had said, “Wow! You’re really gorgeous,” she’d believe me.
So, what can guys do to try and com — I mean, in your opinion, what can guys to try and combat that? How can they make a woman that in their eyes, she really is that beautiful and that gorgeous and that fuckable and that hot? Is there anything a guy can do to combat that?
Ann: Yeah, I think there is. I think there’s a couple of things. One is that if you’re saying it only when you want to get laid, that’s not going to work. You need to say it when you’re falling asleep on a Sunday night, when you’re going to Sunday morning breakfast to her parents. You need to tell her when there’s no possibility of you getting sex out of it so then they’d be able to over time understand that you’ve really given the compliment because you believe it and you wanted to hear it, not because you’re trying to get something.
The other thing is brag about her. If you brag about her to other people and that gets back to your girlfriend or your wife or whatever, there is nothing that makes a woman I think feel better than to sort of hear through the great vine that her partner has been bragging about her.
Michael: Wow! That’s really powerful. And it’s funny, I personally do do like my girlfriend. I brag about her all the time.
Ann: I know you do. You brag about her all the time.
Michael: I do.
Ann: You do!
Michael: And she’s funny because she’s a very private person and she’s like, “Why’d you do that?” I’m like, “Well, because I think you’re awesome.”
Ann: Right! Yeah, I don’t know if that’s true for all women, but I can tell you for me, that is one of the single biggest things that you can do to boost a woman’s self-esteem and to help her really believe what you’re trying to tell her when you’re trying to tell her that she’s beautiful. If you tell it to other people and it finds its way back to her — because then, she knows you’re not — again, you were saying that for no other reason than because you believe it.
Michael: So basically, it’s like don’t just try to — I mean, this applies to text your wife to bed thing, too. So, maybe I should write about it in my book the next time I revises it is the idea — you know, it’s a marathon, not a spring. And the key is to decouple complements from, “I’m trying to manipulate, too.” I think that in general — I studied hypnosis and persuasion and things like that to the point that I’m probably dangerous. But one thing I’ve learned from one of my teachers was the idea of positive intention. And if you want to get somebody to do something, the best way to get somebody to do something is to firmly believe in your heart that it’s the best thing for them to do. So, it’s going to be something they really enjoy. Back when I was in my single and flirty days, I would seduce women and it was just kind of something I was doing, I did partly a) I wanted to get laid. I’m a guy and we’re like that. But also, I knew in my heart that they were going to have a really good time; that any woman that came home with me and we go into bed together was going to come out the other end better for the experience.
Ann: Right!
Michael: Yeah! Having had a physically good time, also having a lot of fun and having been … and not having been like tricked into or anything like that.
And I think I teach mostly guys who are in relationships or want to be in relationships and you can do the same thing with a woman you’re in a relationship with, that kind of confidence. If you really do do the work and feel like, “Yes, I’m going to take my wife and I’m going to make her have a great time, blah-blah-blah. And she’s going to give me a blowjob and really enjoy it,” if you can make that true in your own mind, you can help make it true in her own mind, as well.
Ann: Absolutely!
Michael: And intention kind of goes everywhere. There’s more to other things. I’m really enjoying this conversation. We’ve gone way past our twenty minutes, but I’m really enjoying it.
Ann: That’s alright.
Michael: And when you hear a good one on the hook, you’ve got to keep ‘em. And I wasn’t going to ask you about the — there’s something about — going back to the blowjob thing, I suppose. What are some deal breakers for you? I know you said like if you get down them once and they don’t really give you any kind of feedback and you don’t enjoy the video game of it [00:32:48] in a weird sort of way. That’s kind of a deal breaker. What else is there that a guy can do that just is like, “No freaking way I’m doing that.”
Ann: If you have poor hygiene. I mean, that probably should go without saying.
Michael: Oh! It should go without saying Ann, but it’s amazing how guys just don’t understand that.
Ann: Yeah, yeah. That’s a huge thing, I think. And if you’re with a woman and you don’t know her well enough yet to know if she likes the forceful things and you try to be forceful before you guys have established that as okay, that’s going to turn her off, as well. That is something I think the whole idea of being forceful or being submissive to someone who’s being more aggressive, I think that probably comes for most women after there’s some trust established and that’s generally if you’ve been long in a relationship.
Michael: Yeah, generally speaking. And there are actually tests you can do. I mean, I often will put this in the process some point about how you feel out if a woman is into that kind of thing or not. There are things you can do. I mean, just as simple as putting your hands in her hair and pulling a little bit. If you do that, you can judge from her reactions about everything — or holding the woman’s wrist really firmly in a way. Depending on her reaction, you’ll know how far — there’s been times I’ve been with girls and I’ve done that and they were just like turned on like a fire cracker. I’m like, “Oh, okay. I know what I’m in for now.”
Ann: Right, exactly.
Michael: I suppose that. That’s really important. Yeah, great! God! There’s so much more we could talk about. I’ve been trying to think of like what the best, most valuable thing to get out of this. I think there’s something great about — you know, since you were somebody who was overweight. Now, you lost the overweight and you’re married and you’re with a guy, there’s so much like the normal woman thing because there are so many guys that like they really do firmly believe that the woman they’re with who’s a normal woman, who is a real woman is so beautiful. And it breaks my heart every time — I mean, going back to the idea of like these women just not believing it.
Ann: Yes.
Michael: And to me, it’s like go first and have a positive intention. And for me, it’s almost like stop her, look her in the eye, change your tone and be as sincere as possible.
Ann: Yeah. And I will say in the moment also, a lot of times a woman will get a glimpse of herself in the mirror in the moment and there’s the potential for that to turn awkward because she — whatever, feels like, “Oh! My boobs don’t look good,” you know, something that she fixates on, that she’s self conscious about. And the guy that she’s with is just thinking, “Oh, my God! I can’t believe this woman is having sex with me. I’m so lucky,” you know? If you can keep her in the moment and keep her focused on the act and on you — I don’t mean that taking the attention away from her pleasure, but you know what I mean? But to keep her focused on the connection and on what it is that you guys are doing in the moment and not give her the opportunity to start fixating on her belly or things or whatever it is that each particular woman doesn’t like about herself…
Michael: Like just drowning the inner critic, right?
Ann: Yeah, exactly! You shouldn’t…
Michael: You should distract
Ann: If you can drown out the inner critic with the good stuff that’s going on in the moment and not give her the chance to focus on that negative inner chatter, your chances of her being able to enjoy it the way you’re enjoying it are way better.
Michael: Yeah! There almost is something in there about if women could see men — if men could – – wait! If a women could see herself from her man’s eye.
Ann: Yes.
Michael:…because women are much more critical of themselves, of each other than men are.
Ann: Absolutely!
Michael: And it’s really weird that women don’t understand that like, “Yeah, we will look at the hot 22-year old College girl. It doesn’t mean we want to be with her or even fantasize about it. It doesn’t actually mean we want to be with her.” It’s just like a bright shiny thing that you cannot help but look at, but it doesn’t mean that he finds you any less attractive in any way, which I think is so hard for women to understand that it’s like — you know, if a guy looks at the hot waitress’ ass, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you.
Ann: No. No! And I think there’s the stereotypical thing that women do where there’s like — you know, whatever. Maybe you’re on top and you think, “Oh, God! My boobs look horrible from that angle and you’re worried about that.” I promise you that for every women that has ever thought that during sex, if there’s one percent of the men that they’ve been with who’s even noticed that, I would be shocked.
Michael: Yeah, I know. I don’t know, I’m just having a great time.
Ann: Exactly!
Michael: It’s like my girlfriend once found a picture of a girl I used to date who has larger breasts than she has. And she was briefly — in a very not like — you know, not horrible. It was like, “Oh, wow! Are my breast not big enough?” And I was like, “What are you talking about?” I’m like, “You have the most amazingly beautiful breasts ever. What are you talking about? They’re just not gigantic.” I thought that girl doesn’t really matter. This is very strange, like the things that go through a woman’s mind. And there’s a whole other product I’ll probably do at some point where we talk about this stuff for women and really just kind of explain the mind of a man to a woman.
Ann: That would be great.
Michael: And it’s going to be an epic product actually. It’s going to be my magnum opus. It’s probably going to piss a lot of women off.
Ann: That’s right because you know what? As much as men think they don’t understand, I promise you, women feel exactly the same way.
Michael: Yeah, they have no idea. I do find women that sometimes feel like they do understand men, and they’re absolutely wrong.
Ann: Oh, yeah.
Michael: Like, “Why are men so complicated?” I’m like, “No, that’s not really true. We’re really not that complicated. We’re big blunt instruments.”
Ann: Yeah, we’re trying to do understand you through our [00:38:05] that have just understand you.
Michael: Exactly! And so it’s like, we’re men — really, we’re not generally as nefarious as women think we are. We’re just kind of big dumb organisms and we have very simple needs and we kind of go from there.
Ann, this has been fantastic. I really want to thank you for taking the time out and helping me with this project and helping a lot of guys and a lot of women. My secret thing here is that I’m actually trying to help women have better sex by teaching their men how to have better sex.
Ann: Great! So, I’m happy to help.
Michael: It’s a nefarious thing. So, thank you so very much. I really appreciate it. You’ve been freaking awesome! Thank you so much.
Ann: You’re welcome.
Call 5
Shanell, 34, Married Ten Years, Mother of Three
Michael: Okay! Hi, guys. This is Michael Fiore. And I am really excited today to bring you another one of our Blowjob Interviews. Again, this is a series of interview I’m doing with women – – a variety of women — talking about what blowjobs mean to them, why they like or don’t like giving blowjobs and what men can do in order to make giving a blowjob a more sensual, exciting and powerful experience for a woman. And I’m really, really excited today to have a friend of mine, an absolutely beautiful, powerful woman on the line, Shanell. Welcome!
Shanell: Thank you, Michael. Good to be here. I appreciate this opportunity to really set the record straight here.
Michael: We’re going to reveal the dirty truth about blowjobs that nobody knows.
Shanell: That’s right! That’s right!
Michael: Shanell, the series had been really enlightening for me. Actually, it’s been really very, very exciting getting on the phone with so many women. I think you’re my sixth or seventh interview that I’ve done so far. And it’s been really fascinating kind of getting into the head of women about this whole concept of blowjobs and felatio and really, even how it changes over time depending on what their situation is like.
But before we get into the real meat, why don’t you give us just a quick background on who you are, how old you are, what do you do, do you have kids or not have kids, how long have you been married just to give guys kind of an idea of what they’re dealing with here.
Shanell: Absolutely! Well, I am 34 years old. I have been married for ten years. And I’ve had three children. So, it’s been quite some time — quite some time I’ve been in a relationship and I think you’re a very brave man for tackling this and wanting the real answers because there are so much other stuff out there. So…
Michael: Well, you know, bullshit doesn’t really serve anybody. Just to go on record, Shanell is also a drop dead gorgeous having met her several times in the past, her husband is a very lucky man. And I can’t believe she’s had three kids because she’s just really, really hot, which is always nice.
So Shanell, let’s talk a little bit about — well, the question I always ask first on this thing, when you heard the word ‘blowjob’, what does that mean to you? What kind of emotions does that bring up for you?
Shanell: Yeah, very nice. I personally would like to rename it. I don’t know what we could rename it, but it’s just so much more than a blowjob. It’s so much more. And so, the name itself I think gives it a bad rep for women because it feels like — at least for me historically when I first started in this sexual experience. I was probably sixteen or seventeen. And at that point, the word felt like something I had to do. And I did it because I wanted to be sensual and feel that way, but it was something that I felt was an expectation. And that has completely changed for me.
Michael: So, talk — again, that’s really interesting. Let’s break that apart a little bit. So, talk to me about why you felt like it was something you had to do when you were a teenager? What was that? Pressure coming from guys you were dating? Was that societal pressure? What did it kind of meant to you then?
Shanell: I felt like it was something that was expected of me and something that if I was really going to show the guy I was with that I cared about him, I loved him, I want to turn him on, I felt it was a have-to. And I never really considered it something that I would enjoy.
Michael: Hmmm. So, that’s interesting.
Shanell: I never did. I always thought, “Okay, this is something to please this person,” but never once did I put myself in a situation then that, “You know what? I’m really going to get into this for me.” And that has completely changed.
Michael: I think that’s interesting because what it brings up for you is a couple of things. One is — my mom is a teacher. And she tells me about how — I think she teaches eight grade. And there’s like rampant blowjobs going on in schools these days. It’s like the epidemic of blowjobs with these young women, young girls even — they’re barely even hitting puberty — are kind of doing this. And it becomes also a non-issue for them, “Of course, I’m giving blowjobs” is kind of what’s happening. And I’m wondering — is that a self- esteem thing? Is that eager-to-please thing? I mean, what do you think is causing — ?
Because I think it really — you know, a woman’s first exposure of this kind of thing sets the tone for the rest of their life sexually, right?
Shanell: It’s true. It’s true. It’s very, very true. I think that the situation that you’re talking about, it is a societal pressure. I think that it’s completely misunderstood in that arena of what it really means and why they’re even doing it — and oversimplified, really oversimplified. It can be such an incredibly sexual gorgeous experience. And if your first experience is something that you feel like you’re being forced to do, I don’t care what it is whether it’s blowjob, sex — anything in your life, if you’re feeling forced, it will! You’re absolutely right. It will taint your experience. But that doesn’t mean you can’t change it.
So, from what you’re talking about, I think that — uh, it makes me sad because I think two things. I think that these girls, their self-esteem is definitely going to be affected by that. I think the boys are going to be affected by that because they’re not receiving it in a way that it should be given. So, that’s going to affect them and their sexual experience growing up. But then, we have to practice a lot of allowing, so we let that be. And as adults, I think we really need to revisit it — and God! It can be such an incredible experience for a woman. And I think that that’s what you need to change.
Michael: Yeah! What we talk about in my product in Oral Fixation is largely about giving a woman a sense of power. And this is the secret behind everything I teach. It’s really about as a guy, if you want to get what you really want (which is to have dirty, wonderful, vicious, amazing sensual sex with women), you need to give them a sense of power. You need to make them feel like it’s as fun for them. Give them permission to be a slut or to be powerful or whatever else. And a lot of guys just don’t get that. I think it’s a cultural thin largely where men —
I think there still this idea in our culture that women don’t enjoy — shouldn’t, don’t or shouldn’t enjoy sex.
Shanell: Yeah, I agree with you. And I have to tell you a secret; that women want the exact same thing especially us married women. I remember the first time that I slept with my husband and he spanked me — I’ve never been spanked before and this is not his normal demeanors. This wasn’t something I was expecting.
Michael: Sure.
Shanell: I went crazy! I absolutely loved it! And you know me, I’m a good little girl. So, that sounds to me that you wouldn’t necessarily maybe approach me the first time.
Michael: No, I might figure it out, but most…
Shanell: I was impressed and so taken by the fact that he had that kind of confidence. And he did it in a very humble kind of way, not in an aggressive kind of way, but it was such a turn- on for me. And I think that’s part of what men are also missing. There’s this disconnect now with sexual encounters with men and women where men are quite sure how to act. They know they want to empower their women. That’s what they’ve been told. But they also have heard, “Okay, women are tired and they don’t really want this,” so they’re left very, very confused.
Well, at the same time, the women are very confused because they do want it. They do want it. If they tell you they’re too tired, then there’s something else going on. There’s a self-esteem issue. There’s some other emotional stuff going on. Women love to be ravaged. We love it! We love it.
Michael: Yeah, I think there’s — something I speak on quite often is the concept of — I don’t know if it’s a feminism problem or what. Let’s me talk about feminism for a while. I think feminism has some good points, but it also has a tendency to — unfortunately, people take it too far and they emasculate men. They convince men that men shouldn’t be men. And the women I know, they want a man who will lust after them with complete respect, who objectify them with complete respect. And I think it’s a difficult concept for a lot of guys to get through their head.
We could talk about that all day, but let’s focus on the blowjob thing for a minute. You were talking about the powerful experience for you. And I think could you describe for our listeners — and I actually get the feeling — guys, if you’re listening to this, I think this interview in particular is one you could share with a woman in your life, with your girlfriend or your wife and really have her get something out of because Shanell’s got some really great perspective. Can you talk about what the experience is like for you when you give head particularly with your husband, but in general? You’re saying it was a powerful thing for you. Can you describe what that was really like for you?
Shanell: Yeah, absolutely. And it is. It’s such a powerful thing because it feels like — at this point in my life, it feels like a choice and it feels like an honor. So, in the way my mind and my head works when I think about this, I love to plan. I love to make experiences out of everything, but it doesn’t take a lot of planning to give head, right? You can put the kids to bed. And then, a few minutes thing, “You know what I’m going to do tonight?” and it becomes a really empowering, empowering activity, empowering choice. And I think about for myself not only how I want to make my husband feel, but how I want to feel when I’m doing this.
And so, for me, I take on a completely new persona when I’m giving head. I feel extremely powerful. I feel sensual. I feel almost prowlish. And I feel in control. And that changes everything for me. I love pushing my husband back down in the bed and telling him, “No, you lay down. You let me do this. I love it!” I love surprising him when he’s just coming out of the shower and he’s exhausted. I love it. I absolutely love it. I feel in control in a sexual way that I think is very, very rare in any other sexual activity.
See? When women — so, the opposite, right? When my husband is giving me oral sex, I feel completely like powerfully vulnerable with my legs wide open that way. I love that feeling of openness and just trust. When you’re giving head, it’s the exact, opposite feeling. You’re actually having an opportunity — and this is really interesting because I don’t know if I’ve even voiced this to myself before — but you’re having opportunity as a woman to penetrate.
Michael: Ooh, okay. That’s interesting.
Shanell: And that’s very powerful.
Michael: So, talk to me about that because I think the issue that a lot of women have with blowjobs is largely cultural, right? It used to be illegal. Not that long ago, it was considered — wrap that with sodomy, it was something that God would damn you for. And it was actually illegal to do. And I think there’s like a shame aspect there.
But there’s also a lot of women who seem to feel like giving head is an extremely submissive and even misogynistic act, right?
Shanell: Right! Right, right.
Michael: And you’re saying the opposite. You’re saying that when you’re taking a man’s cock into your mouth, you’re penetrating him in a way. You’re pushing into him. And obviously, physically, that’s not happening. But describe emotionally or energetically how that’s happening for you.
Shanell: I will say that physically, it does feel like that for me because that’s where my headspace is at. I’m feeling like I’m penetrating you, I’m giving you something instead of taking something from you. And that’s an amazing feeling. So emotionally — and you’re absolutely right. And I’m thinking now if this was a conversation that a man, a husband is going to have with his wife, he couldn’t say, “Come on! You’re going to penetrate me now.” So, I’m just wanting to explain to your audience where I come from in this space. And then, if you want to ask me questions on perhaps how they can approach that.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah, totally! Definitely!
Shanell: But for me, I feel emotionally that — hmmm… really, that I’m giving in a way that I normally cannot. I’m providing something emotionally that — [sigh], it feels selfless. And it feels exciting.
Michael: I think there’s something there about how sexually a man are usually the aggressors. We’re basically programmed that way.
Shanell: Yes.
Michael: And we’re usually the ones who are active in a lot of ways. And I know like myself, I’m a very — I tend towards the sexual dominant side of things personally. And it’s very difficult for me to not be there. But when my girlfriend really takes control and head us off at a time, when she does do that, she throws me down, she says, “No, you’re going to lay there,” it really flips the switch for me. It’s such a different experience for me. And it does feel like it’s an experience where women can really have that dominant energy in a way while they’re giving head that there’s really no other way to get.
Shanell: There really isn’t. Women are so — [sigh], so good at mastertasking. They’re doing everything now. They’re making money. They’re doing this. And yet, that kind of dominance isn’t really what I’m talking about. This kind of — and I’m hesitant to even use the word dominance.
Michael: Sure. Yeah, yeah.
Ann: What word really does work for me (and it’s not that it’s even that much better psychologically), there’s a sense of control that — God! It’s so empowering. If women can just switch that emotional connection with feeling like, “I have to do this” and think about how incredible to be able to serve someone in that way when you’re in control — I mean, I love trying all sorts of different things. I love surprising my husband in that arena. I love just scratching him and pinching in different places and just feeling like I’m — really, that I’m in control and I’m offering something to the relationship and penetrating him in a way that I can’t do as a female. I feel like I’m going into a masculine place as a female.
Michael: Yeah, that’s really interesting. It totally makes sense to me. And I think it’s an interesting way of reframing the concept of the blowjob for a woman. And guys, if you’re listening to this, when you go to the program (and hopefully, you will talk to the woman in your life about this at some point), it’s interesting just thinking about it that way. It’s all about flipping that switch in your brain and saying this isn’t a — you know, . A blowjob can be an extremely submissive act just like anything can be.
Shanell: Anything, yeah. Exactly!
Michael: But it’s all about the context of it. And it’s all about what’s going on in her mind while she’s doing it. That submission game can be kind of fun and whatever else. But beyond that, if you make a woman really feel like she’s not just doing this for your physical pleasure, but is actually doing it because she’s getting off on it both physically — because some women really do enjoy the feeling of a cock in their mouth. That can actually be really sensual for a lot of woman. But also, just the emotional side of it.
I know for men — the kind of secret that men don’t really talk about is that men really get off on women’s pleasure, right?
Shanell: Mm-hmmm, yeah.
Michael: Yeah. More than our own pleasure in a lot of ways. Male fantasies are usually about, “I can’t believe how hard I made her come.” If you watch porn, it’s all about the woman’s experience. The guy is a prop in porn.
Shanell: You bring up something so powerful because just even thinking back on my own experience, that’s something that I’ve always felt from my husband, always; that my pleasure is primary. And in that space, that has allowed me to not only become more comfortable with my own sexuality, but do things that I would have considered submissive before. We were probably ten thousand miles apart a couple of months ago and I actually masturbated in front of the computer so that he can — and I was so turned on. That is not a thing that I would ever considered before. And yet, I felt so sensual and so alive and knew that pleasing me was going to please him.
And that’s a really important point for men to understand and for women to understand. If they allow themselves, the biggest problem, the biggest challenge I see with women is that they have difficulty accepting pleasure themselves. And so, there’s a disconnect.
Michael: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think it’s a really interesting concept. Like I said, I think women just really don’t understand that about men; is that we take pride. And I think some of it goes — it even goes to a darker place with the whole concept of like, the word, “Make me cum.” It’s really an interesting concept to me. Like I’m making you do something. I’m forcing you to have pleasure in that sort of way. And it can kind of go to that darker place, but what a powerful thing to be able to do, to be able to make somebody feel that overwhelming sense of pleasure. And a woman, when she’s giving head can do the same thing. It’s really a place where she has the softest, most vulnerable part of a man in her mouth, between her teeth like a wolf…
Shanell: Yes. Yes. Yes!
Michael: …and has the ability to cause both great pleasure and great pain capriciously at that point. It’s all kind of a choice.
Shanell: And I love that you said that because that’s really what women need to understand in that moment that they are in control, that they are being trusted in a way that is so incredibly — not only sensual, but so provocative to be trusted in that way. I mean, I really see it from this space.
Now again, we’re talking about — [sigh] relationships that are strong and are connected and where you already feel safe, right? We’re not talking about any kind of other interactions. So, in that moment — that’s why I mentioned to you the word like prowless. I feel that myself, that kind of feline animal hunger, that ability to please or to cause pain.
Michael: And that’s the cat’s smile, as they say, which is…
Shanell: Yes, absolutely!
Michael: …as a guy, let me tell you, it’s the greatest thing to look down and see in the entire world.
Shanell: And I love that really, you can do this any time, any place at any moment. If you want to shift your entire marriage, if you want to shift the entire conversation, if you want that, then sensuality is the answer. A blowjob is the answer. If you really want to take control as a woman and step into your power, you need to this.
Michael: I think we should create a product all about how to fix your marriage one suck at a time or one work at a time or something like that. We should co-author that. I think it’d be pretty awesome.
Shanell: Absolutely! It’s something that’s serious actually. This can change the world.
Michael: I think better sex can change the world in a lot of profound ways and accepting people and accepting your sexuality. One of the things that I’m begone is accepting both the light and the dark sides of your own personal sexuality, right?
And to kind of move into that, for some guys — me personally, right? I think you would consider me to be a very female positive person. I love women. I adore women. I have no problem — I consider women separately equal in a lot of ways, like they’re very different creatures, but they’re definitely as intelligent, as powerful, et cetera. But there is certainly a part of me that gets off on the ‘power play’ aspect of this kind of thing, on the idea that there’s something very powerful for a man to have a woman down on his knees in front of him.
And I think we’ve been talking a lot about how the power side for women. But for a lot of guys, “Yeah! But what really gets me off is that idea of a girl getting down and sucking my cock” and maybe making it in some ways less personal. Is there a way to have these two concepts work at the same time? Is there a way for a guy to get off on that power play? It doesn’t matter who he is. It doesn’t mean he’s a misogynistic in his real life or anything like that, but we’ve all got this programming. We’ve all got these ideas that we’ve picked up from our childhood, from our first sexual experiences, from culture, from some porn we might’ve watched that might’ve had a negative effect. But it’s all in there. The key to me is to accept it — to accept your sexuality, to realize your sexuality is just play. It’s role playing. It’s having fun. It doesn’t necessarily mean anything else about who you are on a deep level.
So, how can a guy who wants that feeling of power, that rush of power re-align that with also the idea of having a woman going down on him and having her really feel powerful doing at the same time? Do you have any thoughts on that?
Shanell: Yeah, that’s a really good question. The first thing I would say needs to shift is that men needs to act powerful. He needs to display a sexual energy where he releases ownership of — you know, there’s so many men. There’s this constant back and forth now between men and women. And what I’ve seen is that a lot of men do really feel demasculated. That is not a turn on for a woman. So, a man stepping into his own sexual power not in an aggressive way —
— you know, I’ve been around you. And when I first met you, I felt that from you, right? There’s a strong sexual energy. There’s a respect for sexual energy, for sensuality. Men need to first step up themselves in that arena. They need to come across as powerful and sexual.
Michael: Yeah, what I call it is the idea of being appreciative, but not creepy. It’s something that I’ve worked on myself. I tend to have a lot of high level of sexual energy. I adore women. I’ve been with a fair number of women. And I flirt like a motherfucker, right? But I know you and your husband — I don’t think your husband has ever felt threatened by me even though I can say, “Wow! Shanell’s an incredibly beautiful attractive woman,” things like that. It’s not —
I think the key that I try to teach guys is if you want to have that positive sexual energy with women all the time, it’s like yes, you can let a woman know that in a right situation, you would bend her over, pull her hair, fuck her brains out and make her have the most incredible orgasm of her life. But it’s not a matter of you taking something from her, right? It’s not that you want to take something from her. It’s that you feel that energy. You acknowledge that energy. And you’re respectful of the fact that she’s a real human being at the same time.
Shanell: Absolutely! And even prior to that statement, you can ask her what she wants.
Michael: Yup, definitely. What do you women want from their men?
Shanell: What do women want? Women want the ability to be taken care of and take control at the same time. They want to be able to feel cradled and comforted and held tight. And at the same time, respected enough that — God! There is just a shift in energy when I’m thinking about this.
Michael: There totally is.
Shanell: There really is. Like hold me, caress me, love me. And at the same time, watch out. Women want to be respected in that way. Women want both. They want the best of both worlds. And that’s why I said asking a woman what she wants, what does she want at that very moment. Women love to play dirty. They love it.
Michael: So, I think that — the thing that’s coming up for me though is that in my experience one of the biggest mistakes you can make with most women is letting them have all the say in what’s going on.
Shanell: Oh, absolutely! Absolutely!
Michael: I do feel like if you say, “What do you want?” I don’t want guys to misread what you’re saying is the main thing here. I have a couple of friends who I feel like — I’ve one friend in particular who I’m thinking of who was raised by a house of women and never really had a strong masculine in his life. They were kind of feminist. And I know people that he’s dated. And they’re like, “God! This guy like asked if it was okay if he touches my breast. I hate it!” It’s like the worst thing in the world.
Guys, it’s not a matter of like, “Is it okay if I touch your breast? Is it okay if I put my head on your knee? Is it okay if I put my hand on your shoulder?”
Shanell: Oh God, no! Oh God, no!
Michael: Like that is the biggest turnoff ever for a girl, right?
Shanell: Oh, God! I’m disgusted off my skin even hearing it. I want to clarify that because what I mean by, “What do you want?” is saying, “What do you want? This is what I want,” like let’s share. I don’t mean, “What do you want? Give me…” I mean, when my husband spanked me, he didn’t stop in the middle and asked me if that was okay.
Michael: But I’m willing to bet he read your reaction, right?
Shanell: Absolutely! Absolutely!
Michael: So, there’s like a matter of — I know a lot of women, most women I find like some level of that kind of play, of spanking or a firm hand on the wrist or something like that. It doesn’t mean they want to be tied up and beat with whips or anything like that. Men and women, we enjoy that kind of back and forth. And men generally are the ones who are going to be in the slightly dominant role. And that’s fine.
Shanell: And the woman needs to feel safe.
Michael: Definitely! Definitely!
Shanell: If she feels safe already, then like the pull of the hair and the wrist and the spanking, all of that is incredible. So, if you have a relationship already with your wife or your girlfriend or whoever it is where you’ve established that sacred bond of trust, then that’s up to you to take it to the next level.
Michael: Yeah.
Shanell: It really is. You need to display some ownership, some powerful masculine energy and not be afraid to try things.
Michael: And also, I think the key thing here is as a man, do not be ashamed of your desire.
Shanell: Please don’t.
Michael: This is rampant. And this is something I used to struggle with myself. I’m in my thirties now. When I was in my early 20’s, I was not the confident person I am now, right? And I’ve had so much lust for women granted I walked around. I mean, personally, I think most guys do this. We walk around and we’re surrounded by these beautiful, sensual amazing creatures who we just want to pounce on.
And a lot of guys, maybe because they were rejected a lot when they were younger or maybe just because of societal norms are really ashamed of their desire. When I’m jerking around, I say, “Oh, does my penis make me a bad boy” kind of thing. And there’s this idea — maybe it’s because of who their moms were or whoever else, but they feel like, “Oh! I want this, but if I ever admit it… I can’t admit what I really want. I can’t admit I want a blowjob. I can’t admit I want to tie her up. I can’t admit I want her to tie me up,” right?
Shanell: You know what? Women are doing the same thing. Women are going around ashamed of their desires. Women are going around hiding behind the same veil of feeling that they are slutty or sleazy or will be misconstrued if they speak their truth.
Michael: So Shanell, how do we — it’s probably a whole other product itself, but how do we get by that? How do you — I mean, I think if men really understood the lust in their women’s heart, it would be such a different world, right? People will be having so much better sex. They’ll be having a better relationship. I do find like a lack of sexual fulfillment on both sides of the line here, both male and female, it leads to arguments. I always say if your woman is nagging you, it’s because she’s not getting what she needs in a relationship, right? And it’s not that she’s not getting what she wants in the relationship or thinks she wants, it’s that on a primal level, she’s not getting what she really needs. She’s not getting the masculine energy from you that she needs to really be a woman.
Shanell: Absolutely! I stand behind that a hundred percent.
Michael: So, how do we — what can a guy do — you know, so many of the guys who are listening to this, they’re like — unfortunately, a lot of times, by the time a guy gets to my kind of product, there’s been damage in the relationship. They’ve had kids. They’ve had whatever. And they can’t even really — it’s not like they’re 25 anymore and they can still see their girlfriend or their wife as that sexy little thing they’ve picked up in a bar. There are so much weight on what’s going on at this point. And to them, the idea of walking up and saying, “I want you to give you permission to be as slutty as you want to be” petrifies them, right?
Shanell: Yes, yes.
Michael: So, how can they approach that with a woman and help to build up that idea of her power and her opening herself up to being sluttier, to being more powerful, to being more open to what she’s doing?
Shanell: Yeah, that’s a good question. And I want to put myself in that space for a minute because just thinking of having that conversation when you’ve been married for a while, and I understand that so many things can happen during a marriage. So, I think for a man to openly and honestly go to his wife or his girlfriend and say, “This is…” — and when I say, “This is what I want,” I don’t mean, “I really want you to give me head. This is what I want.” I mean, to talk about the emotional connection. “This is what I really want. I want to feel so deeply connected with you. I want you to feel safe with me. I want you to feel attracted to me the way you once were. I want to fulfill you. I want every desire that you have ever dreamed of to be answered. And I want us to sexually connect in a way we never have before.”
If my husband, if we were having issues and if he was to sit across from me and saying those things in that kind of space, in that deep way, not pussy fart around it, “Oh, okay. I want to make you happy, baby,” no! Like, “Really, this is what I want. This is what I want. And this is what I hold our marriage accountable to. I want to live with you. We chose this. Let’s do this. Let’s do this right. Let’s connect,” and saying it in a powerful way. It’s not just about a blowjob, right?
Michael: No! It’s never just about a blowjob.
Shanell: Never! That’s like the end result. And that’s when you’re in a powerful space in your relationship that that feels — God! It feels like a gift. When I’m doing that, I feel like I’m lucky. I am lucky to be doing this. But if you’re having problems for a man to sit down and say, “I want to pounce on you” — I think that is like a turn on. You need to make sure you’re in a space when you say that. But what he’s really desiring emotionally, if he can get past the physical just even for a minute because what does the physical produce for him? It produces an emotional feeling of what? Of security, of love, of lust, whatever that is…
Michael: Of power. Oftentimes, of power, of control.
Shanell: Of power, okay. So, if he can, “I want to be a man for you,” I would love to hear that. If we’re having problems and you sit down in front of me and you say, “You know what? I really want to be a man for you,” I’d be like, “Oh, really? I love that.”
Michael: It’s funny because the tone in your voice right there for a second was really interesting, the way you said, “Oh, really?” because it’s like you hear him say, “I want to be a man for you,” and suddenly, there’s this little coyness that came under your voice, which I find really interesting, which drives men crazy, of course, right? When I eventually do a product for women, it will all be about how to use powerful coyness and powerful — quote and quote — submission to try to turn your man on like nut crazy, which is going to be really fun.
Shanell: It’s going to be fun. And the voice is one of the most powerful ways to do that.
Michael: Oh! It’s so — and what my girlfriend does is the way she looks at me, there’s this particular method she has of like kind of using this little coy, the way she shrugs her shoulders in a way that just drives me crazy. It wakes up my inner caveman out of nowhere.
Shanell: Love it.
Michael: Yeah, she just drives me nuts. Shanell, we’re almost out of time here. I’d like to talk to you about this for hours and I think that’ll be really a fantastic stuff for people. Bringing it back to the blowjob thing really briefly, what can a guy do for a woman who — like you know, they haven’t given a blowjob in a long time. There’s that old adage about, “Why is a woman smiling when she walks down the aisle? Because she’ll never have to give a blowjob again,” right? And a lot of times, people get married. They move on. And that just gets taken off the table for whatever reason.
For a guy who really just wants that again, wants that feeling of connection and power, wants her to feel powerful, what do you think would be a first step to kind of breach the subject? I mean, I have a whole method I write out in my Oral Fixation product and I know you haven’t seen that, but from your perspective, what could a guy do to kind of start the ball rolling in that direction?
Shanell: I think first making it very, very clear that he wants to please her and honestly, that that’s what it’s about so that she feels a little bit more ownership and in control so she doesn’t feel that she’s just there to please him, but just broaching the situation that, “Look, I really want to please you. And at the same time, I want you to please me.” I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking for that.
Michael: No. Especially if you’re in a relationship, that should be something people want to do. No! Yeah!
Fundamentally, we are here to make each other feel good.
Shanell: Absolutely! And even saying that I think would be incredible. “Look, I want to make you feel good. I’m here to please you.” And just starting the conversation, any semi- intelligent woman will then ask or at least start to think, “How can I please him? He’s so into pleasing me. He’s really serious,” because that’s really the biggest block. “I feel like I’m just doing this to please him. This isn’t even about me. This is just an act I need to participate in to make him happy.” And that will immediately shut us off.
If we feel involved and we feel like we’re not only being pleased by the situation, but that the other person, the partner wants to please us first, that opens up the entire space.
Michael: And because about reciprocity at that point, too. It becomes about…
Shanell: Absolutely!
Michael: And again, guys, it always comes down to how can we make this something we’re doing together instead of something you’re doing to me? That’s the fundamental core. How can it be —
I mean, it’s the same thing the other way too when you’re going down on her. And guys, if you don’t go down your wife or your girlfriend, get over it and start doing it.
Shanell: Oh, my God! I could not even live without that. No way with me being married ten years. No way.
Michael: It’s sort of, “Sorry, guys. You’re going to have to. If you don’t like the smell, figure a way around that. Figure it out.”
Shanell: Absolutely!
Michael: It’s just an important stuff to kind of do as they’re going on. Wow! Shanell, we’ve covered so much in this. And it’s really fascinating to me how different each of these interviews that I’m doing with women are and how it’s really —
— you know, guys, the fundamental is it’s like — it sounds so funny. It’s like, “Okay! We’re doing interviews about how to give blowjobs or how to get blowjobs and do you notice that it’s really not about the physical act of a blowjob?” It’s almost never about that. Previous women I’ve interviewed have talked about the emotional connection they feel when they’re doing that — Shanell’s kind of said the same thing — and the sense of power and the sense of — you know, many of the previous women say they giving a blowjob is a more intimate act than having sex, than fucking, right? Because you’re right there in his — you know, the softest/hardest part of the man.
But the core idea here guys is really to own your desire, to not be ashamed of it, to be a man in a non-creepy, non-negative way and to make this as much about her pleasure as it is about yours, right?
Shanell: Absolutely!
Michael: …to make everything you do as much about her pleasure as it is about yours. So Shanell, thank you so very much. I really appreciate you doing this. And I’m sure everyone who’s listening to this appreciates it, as well. And I’ll call you some time for something in the future. I’ve got a bunch of other things and — especially when we do something for women. I think it’d be great to have you on to do some kind of interview.
Shanell: Absolutely! Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.
Michael: Great! Thank you very much.
